DISQUS

simon67854 · 2 months ago

Most of the people complaining about fare increases voted for Boris Johnson and they will most likely vote Tory in the next election. None of them are likely to have raised an eyebrow at the huge sums of tax revenue used to bail out the private sector in the banking crisis. We will be paying for that for years and there is hardly any outrage about it.

People seem more concerned with rude RMT dum dums than those who are really ripping them off. Ian was a bit of a pratt. Walk around London and you will meet people like Ian all over the place, driving buses and black cabs. They are irritating people but they are not as bad as the bankers who have ripped EVERYONE off. Yes, they have enabled idiots to borrow 18 times their salaries for mortgages that they cannot afford. This has not been liberating, it has been irresponsible. More irresponsible than Ian and his curse words.

raymond66 · 2 months ago

That is very true indeed.

But I maintain what I said earlier about him insulting me too.

Pip · 2 months ago

well done, I've just read about this in the online press, and found your blog from that.
What happened to politeness, courtesy and respect from others? Why is it necessary to scream verbal abuse at anyone? Furthermore, even if as some here claim, the elderly gentleman was being a pain, that still doesn't justify such outrageous and disproportionate behaviour.
More and more I'm questioning the behaviour of our society in general, and it's apparent disregard for others; is it just going to continue to deteriorate further?

At the age of 26...that's not a pleasant thought!

Keep up the blogging work - if only to spark debate, and make people aware!

Johannes · 2 months ago

Yeah that's right Mr McDonald. Film this rather-over-the-top member of staff losing it with a passenger whose voice we couldn't hear. Very objective.

I actually feel sorry for the members of staff that have to endure it down there, hot, noisy, having to deal with so many morons, all for about 24 grand a year.

I used to catch the Central Line on a daily basis and couldn't believe the ignorance of many of the passengers. It's probably what contributes to Londoners being considered rude and unpleasant people.

This video reinforces that view only you made it such that a member of staff, who evidently had a tough day, is now worried about his job because you wanted to film a bit of fun on your cameraphone and get interviewed by the news.

You must feel great.

jMac · 2 months ago

I find it interesting how Johannes somehow phrases this so that I opportunistically sought out an a member of staff 'having a tough day' for a 'bit of fun'.

kerlai · 2 months ago

And we're meant to be an Olympic city!

I was in Beijing (China) when the Chinese were preparing for the Olympics. I remember the taxi driver told me that they all had to take lessons in English and learn about other countries customs and if they did not past the test they would not get their taxi licenses.

I think we have a long way to go!!

raymond66 · 2 months ago

I was in Japan in May. The service is excellent, air-conditioned, ultra clean, and above all, the staff very courteous and helpful.
I think Japan is the last country where you have respect, not imposed by fear, but because most Japanese ARE respectful.
I even discovered something about myself: here in London, I can be rude when someone is rude to me; in Japan, I was very happy with the service, and very courteous. The fact is that respect GENERATES respect.

jkn79 · 2 months ago

He's not an elderly man and we only see the end of the story, the man must have done something that we don't see. People in general are relatively sensible however 'the public' tend to be ignorant and a massive pain in the arse. If the old man was being obstinate he probably deserved a good shouting at. There are far more important things going on in the world to worry about a guy having a difficult day at work, you should all get some perspective.

Name · 2 months ago

"If the old man was being obstinate he probably deserved a good shouting at."

I'd like to agree with you, but quite simply you can't do that in customer facing environments. If you're being abused or in danger you call for backup and move away. You do not shout at and threaten the customer.

Yes, we all have difficult days at work, and sometimes complaints against us are unfounded. But that is what the complaints system is for. Ian's job will not be ruined unless he is found to have acted inappropriately, and even then he will most likely only get a slap on the wrist.

As you said, "get some perspective".

Name · 2 months ago

jonathan macdonald - ruining people's lives when they're just going about trying to do their job under pressure.

congratulations jonathon - i hope someone takes as much time and effort to ruin your career one day.

M Khan · 2 months ago

Currently working for LUL for the 5 years and have to say although that is appalling behaviour by the CSA..However as u have recorded the thing why was it not recorded when the whole thing started...People writing on this blog are jumping on the bandwagon as usual not knowing the full story. The passengers who continue to threaten me and my colleagues and spitting at us because we wear the uniform just because they dont know how to touch in or out should fix up and behave in a civilised manner. Message for JM it only shows one thing about you and that you are a coward. A real person would have confronted that CSA and made a formal complaint to police if necessary..Please continue to hide behind your desk........

Jeff · 2 months ago

To be fair I feel sorry for both Ian and the 'Elderly Gentleman'. I work for London Underground and the system not dissimilar to Mad Max or to a lesser extent Waterworld starring Kevin Costner.

It is now so cramped that the boundaries of law and order have been forced to adjust. Quiet unassuming types regularly turn into crazed Bezerkers and no one bats an eyelid anymore: "MOVE DOWN YOU FU#KING BRAINLESS PEDO!" they cry.
I still hear them when i go to sleep at night.
Nowdays if the doors open and people don't part to let you get off it is now generally accepted that you are allowed to punch the offenders in the face. They don't even arrest people for that anymore. Try it. Basically Its a different world to the one inhabited by you "surface dwellers" and the rules are different. So you better get used to it or get out.

Mauranne · 2 months ago

I agree - this is absolutely disgusting behaviour from anyone, let alone a member of staff towards a customer. 'Ian' obviously thinks his uniform gives him the right to behave like this; I wonder would he be so obstreperous if the customer was a younger, larger than he is man? I doubt it! People like Ian are basically bullies, who use the small bit of power their jobs afford them to abuse people in order to make themselves feel more important. Twat!!

andy612 · 2 months ago

It doesn't matter what he said to Ian. That reaction was unprofessional, uncalled for and not justifiable. Regardless of what was said to him.

Can you imagine a police officer screaming like that at a member of the public? Their job is harder than yours.
Can you imagine a teacher screaming at your kids like that and then trying to justify it? You wouldn't.

Please stop defending him.

taralala · 2 months ago

Hello! Police officers do scream at people like that

Then they attack them or arrest them!

Not always of course - but just like this video shows, it happens.

Nick Flood · 2 months ago

Front page of the Evening Standard. Well done Jonathan, this defines social media :)

taralala · 2 months ago

It certainly does. Describe half a situation, decide who is the victim and who is the aggressor. Describe the declared victim in terms that make him clearly the weaker in the situation 'Elderly,' 'Grey haired,' 'polite',' 'questioning' and the perceived aggressor in terms that make him sound abnormal from society, and there you have the perfect story.

But then i guess "Customer rude to station staff, colleague defends colleague and gets a bit emotional' wouldn't really make front page news would it!

avoura · 2 months ago

These Tube workers go on strike whenever they feel like it as they always want more money. When they can't get it they show us just how childish they are, shouting and swearing at passengers, treating us like scum. I do not think all the Tube workers are like this, but I expect that this is part of a subculture within the Tube network, that regards passengers as a nuisance rather than seeing us the people who help pay their wages and should be shown some respect. Bad and irresponsible passengers should be dealt with appropriately, but harsh measures should not be taken against non-dangerous passengers like this old man who just wanted to get on a train.
I have witnessed something before on the Central Line when a passenger tried to get on the train, got stuck in the door, and the driver refused to open the doors to let the passenger get free and made an announcement to tell the man to get himself out of the way of the doors, but he could not do so. The attitude of that driver is very similar to that of the Tube worker in this video.
They must not be given any more pay rises, they must be disciplined for this bad behaviour and not allowed to go on strike, as some of these workers really do not deserve to even have a job.

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

Why should we see you as ppl who pay our wages. We do a job and provide a service, should i then provide none for a child because he/she is free of course not. fares pay tfl and tfl pay our wages. just think about it, most people pay each others wages if that is the case. Where do you work? the chances are 65% that i am paying your wages. Point made thank you

avoura · 2 months ago

Because customer service is of prime importance. The Underground exists to serve people in getting them from A to B, not to primarily provide people like you with an income. Service comes first. And as all the work we do does help each other person get their wages (if employed), then all the more reason to treat each other with respect rather than swearing and threatening. Although we do not know all of what the old man passenger said, the words from the mouth of Ian the LUL worker were unacceptable from a person who is working with the public.
All people who serve customers must see the customer as being very important, and a contributer to the fact that the employee serving them has a job.
Without us passengers, no one in LUL would have a job.
And you are not paying my wages, I work in an industry that gets paid by businesses, not by TfL or LUL workers. Although I do rely to some extent on the services that TfL provide, but I generally avoid the Underground and use National Rail and buses where possible.

magicalmutation · 2 months ago

having visited our fair capitals great transport system a few months back. the only comment i have to say is this. When we transport animals these days they seem to get better treatment than do we. And coupled with the fact that when people are abused that everyone seems to just turn a blind eye can not be a good thing at all. The fact that 'londoners' have decided to put up with this and develop some sort of attitude that it is normal is just wrong.

Ok, I can understand that there are limitations to space and alike and that the arrogance of some of the people who almost nocked me over and the general distain that people had for everyone else on the platform just seem to be bubbling over with enthusiasm to make things worse. Coupled with the general look of the place, like it had been a some time movie set from escape from Newyork or on mass transit system passing through a urinal, I must admit that it was astounding to me that any visitor from any other country may believe that they are not passing through a what should be a civilized country.

There is a general upsurge in the increasing development of an us and them approach to customer services that seems to be emanating from this vicious circle that we seem to have adopted from some sub culture that has infected our society today. When i worked in customer services, and still do to a certain degree it had and still is and surely always will be that you treat others like you would like to be treated yourself in a similar situation. That and you always held some respect for the person you are dealing with however moronic they appeared to be.

There is a part of me that would love to say I am shocked, but to be honest I do not believe that I am. Makes me wonder though what is next. have we really sunk down to a level where swearing and rude behavior, disrespect for others no matter what age or gender and just a general contempt for everyone else has become common place.

The words that there are a time and a place for everything come to mind and watching this video make me wonder if some people should be shipped out to somewhere esle to serve time in another place.

Since I travel allot these days unfortunately i get to see a good cross section of society in general in the uk and i hate to say it but things just don't look good. the melting pot of all the mixed cultures some more arrogant than the others, some less tolerant, some more forgiving and others just down right satanic have I fear some days come to the boil and unless something is done soon then I do fear that our green and pleasant land will become a living hell for those of us who are left.

I defy anyone to tell me that having good manors and respect for the people around you cost anything other than an inconvenience that ultimately will result in your own happiness, regardless of what culture, race or religion you are. Does make me wonder though if we have not brought all of this upon ourselves.

Frank J. Gunn · 2 months ago

Oh you IDIOT Jonathan MacDonald - NOW LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE.

Predictably, initially no action will be taken at first.

Eventually, the person responsible may be suspended pending action, or even fired.

Then Bob Crow and the other unions will get in the act.

There'll be a vote and then a strike.

Lovely, you've just caused a Christmas tube strike for us all!!

Socrates · 2 months ago

I hope that was sarcasm Frank! Surely no-one could suggest that this incident is beyond all levels of reasonable behaviour? If any of my staff behaved this way it would be a written warning at least, and very possibly a summary dismissal!

Ned · 1 month ago

Shrimpy, why do you call it bleating when fair minded people speak up for Ian Morbin and criticise the spiteful actions of a sneak who clearly relishes ruining the life of, in his eyes, a lesser being from the lower orders in the pursuit of publicity for himself and his company? The only person who wrote a bleating noise was someone named stopabusing about a week ago, and he was on your side.

You say you were a copper for 30 years but you seem to have forgotten that for every prosecution there is a defence, and no-one has actually heard Ian Morbin's. In those 30 years how would you have liked a star witness, your only witness in fact, who:

thought east and west were the same thing

described a man as elderly and slow moving, when in fact he looked more like 50 to 60 years old
and moved as fast as everybody else to board the train

gave the accused's height as between 5'6'' and 6'0'', after observing him for a few minutes from a
few feet away, when he is clearly over 6' tall - i.e. according to him he could have passed for 5'7''

claimed to be able to read the accused's mind ("Ian didn't think it was a problem")

over egged the pudding and tried to sway the jury by complaining about fare rises, as if that was
the accused's fault

He would have been laughed out of court, so why should anyone believe anything he says?

The only "evidence" that Ian swore is Mr MacDonald's word, for what that's worth, but even if he did bellow "because there's a fucking train coming" I think that's probably pretty much word for word what most of us would say in his shoes at the time,i.e. an idiot getting his briefcase caught in the doors by trying to board a train that's just been taken out of service - and, yes, that is what happened - and then continuing to mither about why should he stand behind the line like everyone else and obstructing him in his safety related duties as the next train approaches.

Somehow I don't think your line would have been "Well actually, old chap, like I said before, there's a train approaching and, well, you know.... Bit of a nuisance really, I know. Awfully sorry and all that"

Okay, "Sling him under a train" might not sound all that nice but it was just a parting shot, no worse than "Drop dead", not a serious threat as Mr MacDonald would have you believe. Still, it's enough to make him too scared to go to Holborn again, even though he's a black belt at kick donkey, and even though he presumably doesn't normally get on or off the train there, he was only on the platform in the first place because the train he was on was taken out of service.

By all accounts this ever so teeny weeny storm in a teacup gives a very false picture of Ian and don't forget, the "elderly" "gentleman" who started it all, and who's now disappeared, is said to have dug him in the ribs. At most, a quiet word in Ian's ear and perhaps some token retraining would have sufficed but to splash his image all over the internet and television and put him through what he must have gone through and destroy his career, one which he liked and in which he hoped to progress, is disgusting.

To broadcast his name as well was wicked, pure evil.

Mr MacDonald claims to have acted out of a sense of justice and public duty and because he was bullied at school. No, he did it Because He Could. Like people who pull wings off butterflies or torture animals - Because They Can. And they don't give a shit about the suffering they cause.

Shrimpy · 1 month ago

Careful Ned, don't get yourself all wound up and do an 'Ian'. Keep cool, argue your point without abusing people. I base my comments on what I saw and heard in the video. There was plenty of evidence there for me to make a reasonable assessment. You have a different view. Lets agree to disagree shall we.

JMacsRainMac · 1 month ago

Who has Ned abused? You seem incapable of making a reasonable assessment of a quite well written response, never mind a minute long video clip.

I really, really feel for Ian. I've never met the man, I don't work for TfL or the transport industry and I don't live anywhere near London. I simply empathize as one human being to another not wishing to undergo the absolutely ridiculously over-sensationalized drama this tiny clip has caused and the reality of what this has put him through. Anyone who supported this attack on Ian is in my mind and utterly disgusting example of a human being and I hope that they end up in a similar situation that makes them realize just how wrong they were. This was an well-executed attack on an indivudal, which cared not for his side of the story and is typical of emotional, one-sided, opinionated, irresponsible journalism. May Jonathan MacDonald and all the supporters of his "social justice" rot in hell.

I ask you for the third time, Jonathan, where is the footage of your TV news interviews? You and I both know that you will have archived them all, you would have had the technology and the knowledge to do so and kept them as a reminder of your 15 minutes of fame. Post them here, and lets see how you reacted, or as I've said before, are you too worried that you will be shown up as the smug pompous little man, getting immense pleasure from this, that I and many others believe you to be?

Ned · 1 month ago

May they rot in hell - I'll second that.

claire1984 · 1 month ago

Ian resigned- fact
Ian apologised- fact
Ian knows he was in the wrong-fact
Next...

missbeks · 2 months ago

Excellent job thinking to get your camera phone out, posting it on your (nicely designed, by the way!) website, and alerting TFl and the press.

The fact that other people have come forward, including the woman from the BBC, shows that you were right to show this video.

I can see you've got a lot of negative comments. It's such a shame that people don't realise that incidents like this are rarely caught on camera. For every one that is, hundreds aren't. I'm surprised people accept this as the norm. Every person who treats someone like this should be singled out and punished, every time they do it.

Ian · 2 months ago

I feel very very sorry for the employee, and this is a message of support to him. This is a non-incident , just because some idiot had a mobile phone filming and the standard was having a slow news day it has been blown up out of all context.

Does it make the news when LU staff are verbally, and physically abused every single day by drunks and scum bags?? NO of course not...

Name · 2 months ago

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be reported when someone in a "customer services" position, who gets paid to be of service to public transport users abuses a customer. Well done Jonathan for filming and posting. We shouldn't let our elderly members of society be treated in such a way. It's time we stood up to the bullies (including those who abuse underground staff). When did we become a nation so afraid to stand up for each other?

Railway Employee · 2 months ago

see we have some TFL (or similar) employees defending their right to abuse commuters (presumably with equally poor grammar). From M4 Matt.

Here is an example of a pompous individual that I despise.
M4 Matt, I work on the railway Part time, I left school with A - Levels and am currently studying at university....your views are quite frankly insulting!
Your insuations are quite simply that of a small percentage of narrow minded commuters, that have formed a NARROW MINDED opinion after having a bad experience with ONE employee!
I doubt you'd like it if I said...."All office worker's sit in front of a computer all day on facebook"
That is an example of a narrow minded opinion isn't it?

Here is the facts.......

Passsengers' are reminded that they should not attempt to board or alight from a train when doors are closing, for the interests of their own safety.
In addition passengers' that jam train doors are effectively causing damage to the train, which will inevitably cause a fault and then cause a partly suspended service.
This is why it is deemed as a breach of a Railway Byelaw, and passengers' that breach them, can be fined by the British Transport Police.


As for Ian......


He should be well aware that passengers' do periodically ignore this, so why he lost his temper over somebody that simply laughs in the face of basic safety precautions is beyond me!


Now here is my opinion.....

Both Ian and the passenger were both in the wrong.

Ian has a company to represent, and therefore should be keeping his views to himself, and the passenger was also in the wrong because they were in breach of a railway byelaw.
Had the passenger not attempted to walk through closing doors, he would not of had his arm trapped in the first place!

M4Matt · 2 months ago

Shame you didn't read all of my post. It might have avoided some of your misunderstanding. As an interesting aside, I can't help noticing that you refer to your A levels and University course in response to the slight you imagined I was making against TFL employees generally. If you read my post you'll see I wasn't - the key word was 'some'. For what it's worth I have no qualifications, so would be unlikely to judge someone on theirs. However, despite a lack of qualifiactions I can spell reasonably well and (more importantly) reason reasonably well. What did they teach you at school? And I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing your university course isn't quantum mechanics? That's a generalisation I'm happy to admit to... the assumption that someone who doesn't reason very clearly is incapable of successfully studying a difficult subject.

But back to the topic. I'm fed up with (presumably) transport employees sighting 'byelaws' and how the commuter was in the wrong. Since we don't know why the chap got his arm caught in the door, are you saying he was wrong simply by virtue of getting his arm trapped? That is the attitude that riles your customers so much - that sense of righteousness and superciliousness (had to spellcheck that one). The attitude that SOME, but by no means ALL transport staff have.

Anyway, I see that ultimately you agree that Ian WAS in wrong. Phew! Got there eventually.

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

he also has safety and lives to protect which is a little more important than playing childrens games and talking politely to someone refusing to adhere to most simple of basic safety instructions. YOU customers are missing the point we are not there to be your verbal punchbag nor are we there to here petty complaints we are there for YOUR safety so when we say to do something you do it no argument others you will be removed from the station, read the conditions of carriage the staff would have been within his duty to hold the train there until police arrive so get off your high horse we are not there to serve you like servants its safety, customer service comes sencond to that, once you realise that maybe you would start to treat us with respect than common scum.
I had an evacuation last month and all i had was passengers asking how to get where and how to do this and that....GROW UP. wake up the fire alarms where going off and the station needed to be evacuated immediately and people were upset when i told there abruptly get the hell out we dont have time for this there is an evacuation ghoing on, and when this happens customeer service is no longer on the table safety is so you all need to wake up a little and realise this.

AsTheCrowFlies · 2 months ago

".....i told there abruptly get the hell out we dont have time for this there is an evacuation ghoing on, and when this happens customeer service is no longer on the table safety is so you all need to wake up a little and realise this....."

Oh well, that's OK then. Now that you've recounted a recent experience of a station evacuation where you were being rude, that means that "Ian" was perfectly within his "rights" to mouth off at someone over something trivial.

What the hell are you thinking?

claire1984 · 2 months ago

You truely are a hero!

Let's be mean to eveyone but save their lives- because that's what you do, isn't it!!!

ugworker · 2 months ago

I was working one weekend when we had a suspicious package left on one of our platforms. We were in the process of evacuating the station when a young woman came up to me and asked me how to get down to the trains. I explained to her that there was an evacuation and that there were no trains. She then repeated her question. This went on for a total of seven times, the last three I changed my response to use simpler wording, in the belief that she was not understanding me. In the end I pointed to the exit, raised my voice and said GO, GO, GO until she moved.

Being mindful that the suspicious package had been examined by a Police Officer who had in turn requested the evacuation - was I wrong to raise my voice to this customer? How would you have dealt with this?

anotherobserver · 2 months ago

ugworker - You didn’t 1) swear at her 2) follow her along the platform trying to escalate the incident or 3) try to prevent her from getting on subsequent trains because she’d been a bit dense. All of these were present in Ian’s video. You also tried reasoning first. Seems perfectly logical to me. If we were watching a video of your incident I imagine the public response would be markedly different.

Vegeta3113 – I can only assume that this is the name on your Petri dish? A single-celled organism can see that in an emergency / evacuation situation a more measured, clear but firm response is probably appropriate to avoid causing panic. “Get the hell out of here” is unlikely to have the clam, authoritative effect required by someone tasked with the safety of the public in such situations. Did you even think that the “where and how” which the passengers asking were “where are the exits”, “how do I get out”? There were probably signs, but due to the panic you caused I’d imagine some of the passengers may have been a little flustered and have needed further direction.

claire1984 · 2 months ago

UG worker- I wouldn't have changed anything about how you dealt with the circumstances! Handled very well indeed!
It's a shame you couldn't set up some training to help some of the workers who are lacking in 'people skills', such as veggie there!!

Eric Phail · 2 months ago

Watching this video I can immediately identify the source of poor Ian's umbrage: the ponytail. The ponytail - or 'diabolus verbero' to use it it's full medical term - can cause irrational outbursts, clouded logic, and embarrassing sweating. The only known cure is a thorough dressing down, a slap round the face and a hair cut.

mathewbirkin · 2 months ago

So other than the short out of context, unverified shaky phone clip, and the one sided account of our blogger here, a whole city of white collars have set out to hang, draw and quarter an easy target blue collar. From the clip, all you can factually see, is a man with white hair, continually disobey the direct instructions of a TFL staff member.

The white haired man is oblivious to the staff members responsibility for the safety of everyone elses on the platform, that he thinks that his life is more important that anyone one of the 200 other people on the platform. He was in front of the yellow line, which regardless is a fineable offence, he repeatedly blatently disobeyed the instructions from the member of staff to not board the train and to return to the entry hall to be delt with by the transport police, yet another offence, if this was an airport would the it move as many papers?

What ever happened in the rest of the context leading up to this video clip is hearsay, open to interpretation and writen misconception. These are people who work for the tube, not robots, one of the few good things about london transport is the occasional staff personalitys that shine through during announcements. This man was doing his job, if the white haired man had fallen onto the tracks whilst being in front of the yellow line, he could have endangered the lives of several others, possiably skitteling them onto the tracks as well. What would your opportunist blogger write then. Would the headlines then read, ''Man films old guy hit by train, rail staff accused of negligence of failing to keep passengers behind yellow line?''

At the end of the day, the clip actually shows a TFL worker at the end of his tether, frustrated at an obnoxious white haired male who in the midst of a crowded platform decides to be a law unto himself. If it hadnt been a younger TFL worker with a ''pony tail'', and instead been a london transport police officer giving the instructions the whole incident would not have happened. You cannot apply the same rules and etiquette as a white collared office building, to the blue collared customer service field, where only 30% of the customers speak english. These guys do a fantastic job, in a field which is basically problem management.

Unlike transport police, TFL staff do not have the power to manhandle people to get them to do what is required for public safety. Without granting transport staff more power to do what is necessary to make the trains run safely and on time, sarcasm is pretty much the only weapon that they have which embarrass people, to get them to conform. In a city that has no respect for its public servants, where opportunists with mobile phones take photos to give to two bit tabloid newspapers, the transport system in london will always be a shambles.

The public sector is so used to being micro managed and tied up with knee jerk reaction please explain red tape, that its no wonder that they find it hard to smile.

Let them do their jobs.

ht · 2 months ago

mathewbirkin - you must have viewed a different clip to the one shown here

whowantstoknow · 2 months ago

Jonathan
I agree that this type of behavior is unacceptable and I also agree that Ian should be sanction for it , however you have just ruined a man’s life. He hasn’t committed a rape on a child or a crime of that sort. His name is now all over the internet and he will find it very hard to move with his life. If you really had an interest in the incident instead of your own agenda and publicity you would have intervene in the conflict. It is very easy to sit behind a computer and do that but it would have taken more guts to say something when it happened. I would have and I am a woman. I don’t think you realize the consequences of you action. I am not defending Ian behavior and he probably deserve to lose his job over this but does it really deserve being scared walking down the street? I don’t think so. Let’s face it Jonathan you are not an angel yourself.

JuliaM · 2 months ago

"...however you have just ruined a man’s life."

Pretty certain he did that to himself, when he decided to act unprofessionally in the smug certainty that he'd got away with it before, and would do so again.

an RMT member · 2 months ago

Oh dear a suited and booted man that pays XXX's a year.
Im with the member of staff on this, sorry but its people like you that pi** us staff off.
Oh dear get your arm trapped did you? Perhaps you shouldn't have got on the train when the beeps were going off.
In busy times the only thing that you suited and booted listen to is swearing. Lets see If I said in a quiet polite and calm voice "excuse me sir there's a train coming step back" you would have ignored me, oh and don't lie you would have.
Yipee you wont use our station again, brilliant one less piece of suited and booted scum. Heres an idea why dont you just refund your ticket (oh wait we the taxpayer pay for your freedom pass) and never ever use our service again.

barry12345 · 2 months ago

Is the RMT a club for ranting fat blokes or what? Why must you be such an angry blobber? Sorry I mean blogger.

That "elderly gentleman" was not old - he was probably a banker or a lawyer. If people want to complain about rip offs they need to be talking to that "elderly gentleman" and his colleagues about the tax funded bail out of the private sector. Ranting RMT loons are small fry. They are too thick to be a real threat to society.

People complaining about LU staff are mostly closet Tories who voted for BoJo. Where is the big outrage at the bailout of the private sector? This country is strange. On the one hand you have foul mouthed raging slobs in the RMT. On the other hand you have petty middle class closet Tories who get outraged at public sector price increases but say nothing about the biggest rip off in history - the private sector banker bail out. It supports my theory that the majority of people in the UK are morons.

streaky · 2 months ago

"but say nothing about the biggest rip off in history"

Oh please.

johnredwood · 2 months ago

Please what "streaky"? Doesn't the Daily Telegraph tell you about the banker bail out con in enough detail for you to be suitably outraged?

Would you rather froth over MP's expenses and their bespoke duck houses? Does Bob Crow irritate you more than the biggest robbery of public funds in history? You are a brainwashed follower.

It's the selfish Tory "no regulation of the markets" slimesters who are the real threat to the stability of this nation and you choose to overlook that. You must be a dunce. I bet you would like to see John Redwood as Home Secretary.

baronleclay · 2 months ago

Streaky seems more like a Daily Mail type than a Telegraph reader.

streaky · 2 months ago

I don't read newspapers, they're all owned by the Murdoch scourge.

streaky · 2 months ago

No I just have enough braincells to know as long as these banks don't completely collapse we'll get money back, hell if the banks do well and it's played right we could even make a profit. We bought into some of these banks pretty cheap. Not saying we will or won't profit, just that it could, and arguably should happen. Who's reading the wrong media - they didn't tell you that did they?

Hence no I don't think it was a robbery.

As for the idea of not bailing them out, which is a crazy right-wing nutjob tory idea, the idea that bailing them out is a right-wing concept is absurd, the tories fought it tooth & nail. Wake up.

Anybody that has a mortgage or pension should be extremely grateful they were bailed out, especially if you're 5-10 years away from retirement. You'd have lost everything.

Anybody that thinks these bankers and traders who screwed stuff up give a damn about if the banks were bailed out - you're insane. It protects average people, the bankers and traders have their nesteggs and would happily retire and leave this country for warmer tax-free climes, leaving the rest of us looking like zimbabwe economically.

T · 2 months ago

You're an idiot of the highest order. He didn't get on the train when the doors were closing. He was trying to get OFF the train because it was faulty and being taken out of service. Try READING before you make stupid ill informed comments like this, you're as bad as the pony-tailed waste of space in the video.

streaky · 2 months ago

Really. Do it in front of me and I won't be filming you and going to the press, I'll throw /you/ under a train, go back home 200 miles away and avoid London for a year.

I don't wear a suit or shiny shoes, it's scum like you and your stupid union (and the CWU are just as bad as RMT for only giving a shit about yourselves in the arena of make-work jobs that a trained monkey could do for extraordinary ammounts of money) that are everything that's wrong with this country right now. If you don't like your job f**k off and go find another one, oh that's right - nobody else would employ you.

Just you clowns wait until the Tories get back in an repeal the minimum wage and trade union recognition act, scumbags.

Nick Gerson · 2 months ago

Oh Lord, another keyboard warrior.

You sound like an uncouth, right-wing, "I'm alright Jack, screw the workers, ra-ra-ra" idiot that would relish a return to the 1980s. Maybe you are stuck there; a 21st century yuppie?

I bet if you were at the scene of this incident you wouldn't have done a thing save for reaching for your Blackberry to get this week's 3 minutes of voyeurism over with.

Muppet.

streaky · 2 months ago

Oh please, I became an AEEU member at 17, then into Amicus and now Unite since the mergers. I've also never owned a Blackberry in my life, I've got /far/ too much self respect, currently proud owner of a HTC TyTn II - looking for something better, but nobody makes the phone I want yet. The issue isn't one of left or right, in fact, you'd find I'm actually centrist verging on left wing. Not david cameron pretend to be centrist, but actually centrist.

The issue is there's some unions in this country that take their 'collective bargaining' to whole new levels of idiocy, would rather put thousands of people out of work than work with company bosses, or will strike to keep somebody (in this case) who has probably not only committed a criminal offence, but arguably potentially committed a criminal offence.

It's one thing for a union to defend somebody and they probably should, make sure he gets a fair hearing, but if there's even a hint he'll be sacked, who wants to bet against RMT calling for a strike?

That's not how it's supposed to work. End of. RMT thinks it is, CWU thinks it is. I have friends in RMT, I know how you guys think.

You not supposed to fight tooth and nail at the expence of everybody else, that includes your own members. The world is changing. These guys on the underground doing this guy's job, it's mostly make-work, lets not mess about. Some places they're needed, but not all of them. TFL could easily rig all the lines in London to be like Jubilee then where will these people be?

Just as a point to show how one union's extreme militancy can screw things up for everybody - I've been trying to get a flat back home (Lincoln) so I can get out of London (not that I hate it here, but just because I want to go home). 3 rental applications have never arrived at their destination now, and it's costing me a fortune to stay in London, but I can't just give up because I'll lose my job.

That's just my example of what the CWU have done to me, I'm having to eat through my savings just to stay in my job, and I've heard even worse stories, so don't talk to me about left and right - you're the ones pissing off the general public - all David Cameron has to do now is say he's gonna repeal some union-friendly legislation, the trade union recognition act being an obvious one for starters, and he's practically guaranteed to win the general election.

All I'm saying is, to some of these unions and their membership - you did it to yourselves.

streaky · 2 months ago

Er, the first criminal in that should be sackable, type fail.

alexbrandt · 2 months ago

I have to say that whilst I can understand underground staff feeling stressed about certain situations (I have a friend that is an underground train driver who has experienced a "jumper"), there was absolutely no excuse, in this instance, for the employee to speak to this elderly gentleman in the fashion that he did and I totally agree with the blogger (sorry, don't know your name but saw it on Sky News).

I work within a stressful environment where I have the responsibility of dealing with people all day long and no matter how bad or strained my day has been, I remain composed and respectful to others around me. That isn't to say that I don't feel like venting my anger on occasions and in my role, that circumstance is probably much higher, however, in a professional capacity, it has always been managed well and no matter how irritating other's can be, there is no excuse for that behaviour!

I salute the blogger on bringing this to peoples attention and can't understand why good manners and a calm, proactive approach wasn't used on this occasion where the elderly gentleman was clearly not being a hinderance - and even if he was, it's all down to respect at the end of the day - something that's sadly disappearing from this country far too quickly.

Just for the record, I'm a Recruitment Director and should any of my members of staff behave in this way, they'd face a disciplinary and short, sharp shock!

lindarozee · 2 months ago

Thank you Jonathon for having the guts to film this disgusting behaviour. PLEASE make this public to every media outlet there is. I have been luckily in the past not to have experienced this type of behaviour myself, but I had reason to travel across "Great" Britain last year. There was a new mum on the train with her little boy in a pram. The guard (female) REFUSED to get a ramp to help her get on the train (there was massive gap between the train and the platform, and the train was much higher than the platform. The Guard even refused to help her. I had to leave my little girl and help this poor young women my self. Needless to say at the end of the girls journey, no help was forthcoming from the BR Guard, and once again I and a fellow passanger helped the lass off the train. The fact that the both I and the other lass asked for the name details of who to complain to about this was met with total disregard. In fact the letter I recieved from BR was so off hand it was unbelieveable. Do BR care. NO

blogwatcher · 2 months ago

BR havent excisted for many years

avoset · 2 months ago

I literally cannot believe that people are defending this sort of behaviour.
Are the general public a pain in the ass? Sure they are.
Can some individuals be obnoxious and uppity? Absolutely.
Do people regularly try and force the tube doors to get on or off? All the time.

Is it appropriate for a professional who is on duty to swear, threaten and insult someone - regardless of age, gender etc? Of course its not. Its not. You may symapthise - but its still not.

Seriously guys. There is no excuse - bad day or not. He should be worried about his job because he doesn't deserve to keep it.

jondear · 2 months ago

This is a perfect example of unacceptable customer service. Notice how the female staff member at least has some shred of conscience left, because she tried to cover it up and stop the filming. He should be sacked, and she reprimanded, as I'm sure she didn't report the abuse of the passenger. Sad to see no one else raising their voice to help a fellow human being. Well done for filming it and for speaking out.
PS
I think we can guess why some people are defending the abuse here.

youness · 2 months ago

I was on the platform waiting for the train at the beginning of the platform when I heard shouting from the so-called Ian (the unhelpful staff member). My intial reaction was that someone had tried to push on in order to get on the train. Within the last few minutes, I read the story of Jonathan and viewed the video coming to the conclusion that the foul mouth and mistreat by this individual to an elderly gentleman who has more experience in life and important member of society has the right be treated with respect.

The staff member had no right to speak in his manner. Jonathan should be given a full apology plus free travel for 3 months on the london underground. It shows his lack of respect.

What a shame we have to pay more.

Featherspeed · 2 months ago

People say that unions and the right to strike is to protect the poor workers against big corporations. However, when the unions and the workers (who provide an essential service) have too much power, the balance is tipped to the other extreme. Now the tube workers have all the power they want, not only over the so-called big corporations, but over us.

We are held at ransom while they demand an increase on top of their £50,000 a year salary that hardly needs any qualifications, while people like me who have done 4 years of a degree, a year of a post-grad diploma and a Masters gets paid £20,000 a year for teaching English. It is pure greed and the consequences are not borne by Transport for London. Instead, their high salaries mean that we the public have to pay for their demands through higher fares whilst tolerating the delays, inefficiencies, incompetence and lack of service.

It's a travesty and I call for a ban on tube strikes as it should be re-categorised as an essential service. It makes no sense that TFL can't fire any of their workers of misdemeanor or behaviour such as this. I say fire all of them, re-employ new workers who are willing to do the job at a much lower salary (there are lots of unemployed people out there who would jump at the opportunity to be paid £20,000 a year to press buttons) and pass on the savings to us poor commuters in the form of lower tube fares!

Dan Crubbin · 2 months ago

What are you like? The person in question is probably on less money than you, so where does £50k a year come from? How do you know that he has not got a Masters degree himself? He probably found it difficult getting a job in his preferred profession.

I say this because one of my friends is a PhD and was unemployed upon graduating, eventually finding work in recruitment centre (!), another has a PhD and works as a publican.

It's very worrying that people as short-sighted as you have Masters degrees but if you want to know why things cost so much in this country, grade inflation and wage inflation go hand in hand.

blogwatcher · 2 months ago

Ians wage is £24,400, few earn the sum that you mentioned, unless in managment after getting a degree, maybe if you are so unhappy you should join LU

blogwatcher · 2 months ago

Ians wage is £24,400, few earn the sum that you mentioned, unless in managment after getting a degree, maybe if you are so unhappy you should join LU

Boris Johnson · 2 months ago

What utter tosh. The guy snapped at someone - of course he wasn't going to push him under the train. It was a snapped aside. So he's on the man blob and a bit grumpy.

Given that there's illegal wars going on and god knows what else you all really need to get a life.

And those of you threatening to kill him. Idiots. Pathetic.

They way you're all going on you'd think he'd raped and murdered your mum. Shameless self promotion by Jonathon McDonald at the expense of another human being. Oh and the long hair comments - pathetic again. McDonald should have made a proper complaint and if it had failed then gone public not destroyed this young man's life.

No way am I going to put my real name on this - when people are clearly threatening to kill poor Ian.

And I don't work for Tfl. I live about 300 miles away.

Ken_Livingstone · 2 months ago

It wasn't just a snapped aside though was it - pushing his face into a weak elderly man's and swearing/screaming in response to no justified provocation. Good on Jonathan for publicising the incident - too much of this bullshit is ignored every day.

It's just bullying.

crowisthick · 2 months ago

Seems like Ian is another graduate from the Bob Crow school of charm. As a suited passenger on the tube what else can you expect? TfL is staffed by people with 2 GCSEs per station who are very jealous of those of us who have done better in life. To all the pro-Ian supporters (who are clearly fellow LU muppets), keep waving your white lollipops in the air in frustration. Meanwhile, we will carry on our more civilised existence and forget about you lot the minute we reach the top of the escalator. Toddle-pip!

taralala · 2 months ago

if your that civilised why do you get on a tube carriage and sweat like a bitch for 3 hours a day?

and wtf is toddle-pip?

NotNeeded · 2 months ago

I would expect that someone, with supposedly more GCSEs, would be able to spell.

crowisthick · 2 months ago

Good spot, "NotNeeded". But what's your view on the story?

crowisthick · 2 months ago

Thank goodness I don't! From my zone 2 pad to the City takes 25 minutes each way. PS I think you meant "you're", rather than "your". They probably didn't teach you that at your school of hard knocks. However, help is at hand! My old public school will lose it's charity status of it doesn't do more for the masses, so your children have hope!

blogwatcher · 2 months ago

zone 2 eh out in the sticks i call that, much nicer in zone 1

crowisthick · 2 months ago

You and all the Japanese tourists. I'm green with envy. You enjoy your shoebox and I will enjoy my house.

blogwatcher · 2 months ago

ride the work horse work bitch,and oh yes what is todle pip

crowisthick · 2 months ago

I suspect you may be a giro man? Oh well. Live and let die...Oh, I mean live, obviously.

blogwatcher · 2 months ago

whats a giro man, if you mean not working you are wrong again, i expect you
must get fed up being wrong all the time

crowisthick · 2 months ago

Yes, as I stare into the mirror at the beginning of the day in my pinstripe I do get fed up. "Am I wrong"?, I say. Then I get onto the trading floor and forget about such questions and frustration. Life's too short!

ugworker · 2 months ago

Actually, I have 6 C.S.E's, 5 O' Levels. One of the staff in my station is studying a Medical Degree. Not sure where you get the 2 GCSEs per station from? Creative Writing maybe?

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

"TfL is staffed by people with 2 GCSEs per station who are very jealous of those of us who have done better in life. "

Oh here we go with the stuck up pompous attitude!!!!!!
*Rolls eyes in despair*
I find your ignorance quite astounding!
How do students get an income when they're studying?.......by getting a Part Time Job!

Does it not occur to you that a percentage of the transport workforce might be students?......with your misconceived ignorance, I doubt it!

As a student myself, that works in transport part time, I have to say it is you who portrays that of one that is "thick"
I hope I haven't damaged that overly inflated ego!

Just for the record.....I am a student, so one isn't dealing with somebody that apparently has "TWO GCSES"

Name · 2 months ago

i am so glad you did this

barry234 · 2 months ago

Poor Ian - what a knob... Having said that, I've seen bus drivers behave in a far more rude and dangerous manner. These people present themselves as "the working man". In reality they are foul mouthed, lazy slobs who can't do their job properly. I totally agree with the comment that the problems start with the attitude of the transport staff and move from there.

You don't expect to be raged at by a frothy mouthed blubbering big mentalist when you haven't got smaller change than a £5 note to get on a bus. These people need better public relations training.

Funny how they always strike when there is a big England game on.







You don't expect public servants to be raging

blogwatcher · 2 months ago

1 strike in 8 years me thinks you are ill informed

lorna99 · 2 months ago

Well done for bringing this to the attention of the press. Let's hope this "moron" is dealt with accordingly.

patrickohare · 2 months ago

We obviously only know the filmed version which is half the story. Why would the guard threaten the middle aged (hardly elderly?) gentleman with the police? Did he see him actually commit the offence of restricting the doors? Perhaps he assumed he did.
Underground workers are under pressure with so much disregard for their authority by the general public. Many people put their arms, legs , briefcases, etc between the closing doors, which everyone knows is very dangerous and puts other passengers at risk. The guards see people doing this everyday and are obliged to tackle it as part of their job.
With one or two guards, if any, on a crowded platform, they,the guards, have to be quite vociferous to ensure public safety.
I have occassionaly seen the transport police caution people quite sternly for restricting the doors or standing too close to the edge of the platorm, with the offender obliged to stand there and accept what is said to them, and miss subsequent trains until the police were through with them. London Underground guards should be given as much respect when carrying out their duties.

blogwatcher · 2 months ago

well done Patrick, half a story shown and many people start behaving like online vigilantes, it pleases me to see that im not alone in wanting the full story

Horatio · 2 months ago

The passenger in question was trying to exit a train which was being taken out of service, at the request of station staff, when he was trapped in the door.

Is this accident, in your opinion, an offense?

andy612 · 2 months ago

Looks like someone (the RMT?) are suddenly mobilising their online responses. The last few comments (jkn79, Johannes, patrickohare, blogwatcher et all) are all suddenly in favour of this abusive and obnoxious man. All in the last half hour too. It all feels a little bit "co-ordinated".

Stop defending him and apologise. There is no way that this is excusable or acceptable.

The only remarkable thing about this incident is that it was caught on video. It's an all too frequent occurence for those of us who travel on the tube.

jkn79 · 2 months ago

I travel on the tube a lot and have never had any problems, this 'elderly' 50 year must have been a pain in the arse. I'm not defending the guy, but we only see one side of the story, recorded by a man too spineless to step in if he's really that offended.

blogwatcher · 2 months ago

Nobody has mobilised me i just like to be fair and balanced

Name · 2 months ago

There's two sides to the story. This is not an elderly man. We don't know what he said to Ian. He may have been very abusive towards Ian. Look at the man's body language.
Jonathan you seem to be hyping something up without first checking out the facts.

raymond66 · 2 months ago

I have been insulted by him as well 3 times in the past. Once he was very rude.

carolohyes · 2 months ago

A huge well done for having the quickness of mind to video and publicise this incident - people who treat others with disrespect and contempt need to be brought to account for their actions. That poor man is probably still shocked and upset by this and deserves not only a grovelling apology but lifetime free travel to compensate - in these times only those who deserve jobs should have them and that oikish prat certainly deserves to lose his.

Monica · 2 months ago

Hi Jonathan,

I just saw you on BBC News. I am shocked and appalled by what happened on Holborn station today and I'm very happy you decided to make this story public. I feel so terribly sorry for what that idiot put that poor elderly man through. Thank you for speaking up.

My best wishes to you and yours,
Monica

rraymond · 2 months ago

This sort of behavior is totally un acceptable, doesn't he realise where he gets his wages from? from us passengers!!! I hope this person gets the boot, there is a lot of people out there looking for a job and am sure a lot more is much deserving of this job than this BULLY!!!

Arsha · 2 months ago

Just saw this on the BBC London News.

Well done Jonathan for being pro active and doing something about this.

I only wish more people had stood up for the elderly man. Disgusting behavior from the staff member...and we have to pay for this? As well as their frequent strikes?!!! And now the rotund blithering idiot that is the mayor of London (oh the hilarity!) wants us to pay more for this mediocre public transport whilst simultaneously telling us to use it in order to save the climate!!!! You could not make this up in a comedy club if you tried :-((

sallyroberts · 2 months ago

Actually the Mayor of London that you are insulting is the very person who is standing up for the poor man (the passenger that is - NOT Ian!). Your precious Mr Livingslime would have sided with Ian and his foul-mouthed RMT mates.

Arsha · 2 months ago

Why do you assume I like one if I detest the other?? Both of them are idiots, Livingstone is a self-righteous son of a ..... whilst old Boris is forcing the public to pay for the incompetence of the institution he serves. Hating the pompous Tories and detesting the incompetence and lies of Labour are not mutually exclusive unless you are an insular individual with a mind that only thinks in a dichotomous way.

Johannes · 2 months ago

What do you mean 'poor man'?

Presumably we are talking about the 'elderly gentleman'? He didn't look that poor to me. Underground guards on the other hand earn poor money for the work they do and the people they have to put up with.

But hey whatto, you sound like one those airheads that used to proudly wear a 'Back Boris' t-shirt on the tube.

robertmckenzie · 2 months ago

Well done on the filming and blogging of this incident .. I lived in London for 3 1/2 years and travelled the underground daily to/from work. More then once I'd seen ... over eager staff .. but never have I seen something like this fellow. I really hope he loses his job over this. Clearly he's had a bad day and took it out on some poor punter, but lets see how his days are while on queue at the JobCentre.

Emanuel · 2 months ago

I've never done a single job in my life where I've had to swear at people, this guy should take the opportunity and change his job now, he clearly doesn't enjoy working for the LU.

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

he did not swear at him.

Nogginthenomad · 2 months ago

Well done, Jonathan, for highlighting this. Methinks you have become something of a celebrity - all the news networks are latching on to it.

liz56789 · 2 months ago

Wow, that's absolutely appalling behaviour. The staff members of the London Underground are supposed to be charming and helpful and yet we can see how crude and nasty they can be to the passengers at times! The passengers are usually busy people trying to get to and from work and are stressed enough. They don't need some cocky idiot mouthing off at them.

That elderly man didn't warrant that Ian bloke bitting his head off. Funny, you don't see Ian talking down to or shouting at the other passengers, obviously saw the elderly man as a weak target. Such a pathetic man.

Thank you for posting this video, Jonathan.

JuliaM · 2 months ago

Well done you!

Twenty years ago, someone would have decked that gobby little oik with one punch. And all the other passengers would have applauded him for it.

Name · 2 months ago

What phone do you have? It's amazing vid and sound quality! Nice work though, i'm disgusted with our 'services' like royal mail and TFL - to top it off, they think they get to strike in this year of economic hardship! You go to Paris and see if they suffer the same terrible and insulting service. btw Ian is the little girl as he has a pony tail - I hate jumped up idiots like this, hopefully this will teach people like that a lesson.

raymond66 · 2 months ago

Oh my god! As soon as I watched the video, within a second I recognised him. I have been insulted a few times by him, just for asking questions!
I now use Covent Garden, mainly because of him. He once said that they "have all the rights, to strike,...", and so on, and he shouted and laughed! When I told him his attitude was unacceptable, he shouted and swore even more! 1-0 for him!

But I experienced far worse on 15 December 2008 on a W7 bus! Please, do contact me if you want a copy of my letter. I could hardly believe what I saw was really happening, just for asking why the bus was 7 minutes late! 1-0 for her!
An old lady told me that this driver doesn't stop at the top of the hill, on purpose, and she has to walk up from the other side of the hill!
I wrote a complaint letter, and I never got any answer. I guess they would say they never got it because of a postal strike.
In the last 2 weeks I have been walking (for 20 mins), as the service got unreliable on the W7...

They other day, another bus driver showed his finger to a customer. 1-0 for him! Frankly, this is disgusting...

These days, the customer is always wrong.

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

There are good staff and there are bad, just as there are good customers and bad. I work in the ticket office and trust me %99 of the time the customer is wrong, this is me being honest ok, i am well trained for my job and know the ins and outs of most things to do with tickets etc etc, out of thousands of times ive been wrong a couple and i have apologised those times, truth is customers are mostly wrong.

rayray693 · 2 months ago

He's been suspended check out http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and...

Name · 2 months ago

Hi Jonathan, I wondered if you'd like to speak to me about this? I'm a journalist from the Press Association and I'm writing a story about this guy's appaling behaviour! I'm on 02079637120 if you want to get in touch Thanks Laura May

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

you arsehole, lets just run to the hills with axes and torches the man should burn for this, he called him a jumped up little git and a girl.... get a grip on humanity dont you have anything better right about you dumb fuck? like maybe mps claiming thousands for nothing or maybe people being killed, you know things that mean something, you must have soo much time on your hands why dont you make a film about it....my god this is blown way out of proportion

jamieevans · 2 months ago

This is bloody terrible! He had absolutely no right to speak to anybody like that. From the way he was shouting his head off when the man got on the train it is clear to see that his little bit of 'power' has gone straight to his head. He should have that power removed until he can learn how to treat other human beings.

jamesgalbraith · 2 months ago

I think an "off day" is one thing; but I have been on the same platform as this guy many times and he is like this all the time.

My friend told me about this first, and as soon as she said Holborn I knew it would be him...

Jax76 · 2 months ago

That was exactly my reaction too. I knew it was him at the mention of Holborn. Complained about him last year after my 'run in' then had to do my best to avoid him since as I still feel intimidated.

A lot of the posts here are just angry rants and it's horrible to see but I'm so glad this has been exposed as when I complained, it was so clear that nothing would ever happen and he'd just spin some line about abusive passengers. I know I did nothing to provoke or deserve the abuse I got from this man and to an extent, what goes around comes around, the bully ends up the bullied. There are people more deserving of his job.

She who must not be named. · 2 months ago

Eek, just saw this story on London Tonight too. Appalling behaviour. Of course LU staff don't deserve to be abused, both verbally or physically. But neither do passengers, *especially* if it's an unprovoked attack. Travelling on the tube is bad enough without behaviour like this. I hope 'Ian' gets reprimanded and fired.

des1411 · 2 months ago

@James Murphy I think there is a queue of people myself included who would not mind throwing you under a train as I am actually beginning to find you more offensive than Ian.

James Murphy · 2 months ago

Yeah?

des1411 · 2 months ago

Yeah what you shithead?

James Murphy · 2 months ago

Yeah?

des1411 · 2 months ago

Your mum

steve · 2 months ago

In response to madeline123123:

I would argue that this IS a big deal.

A representative of London Underground (whos job it is to protect passengers safety) has said "sling him under a train" and also verbally abused a customer... How is that acceptable conduct?

When did we (the customers) become so apathetic about being treated badly for a service we pay a fortune for? Why should we have to deal with rudeness, and abuse from staff when we are paying for a service?

In my job (I work within TV Post Production), if I started swore at a client who pissed me off, I would be unemployed within minutes, and would probably find it hard to find another job in the industry. I fail to see the difference.

The saddest thing is - if our dear friend Ian did get sacked I can pretty much guarantee that in a few months time we would be having to endure more tube strikes, as every other card holding, back patting, look-after-your-own member of LU would back him up, and take industrial action, so they dont have to treat us witht he respect we as customers undoubtedly deserve.

sallyroberts · 2 months ago

Well done, Jonathan! I hope the book is slung at that foul-mouthed member of TfL staff and he loses his job!
This happens all too often - we have become a country where if you are quiet, mild-mannered and middle class you are considered beyond the pale and a thorough-going nuisance by the yobs that run many of our public services. All too often the customer is "always wrong"...
It has got to stop!

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

after dealing with over a hundred customers most likely moaning WHERES MY TRAIN, etc etc maybe he had enough, also it was the safety of the guy which was why he was a bit forceful, i told a man to stand behind the yellow line and he said, i am a company director you cant tell me that, ok i will let them know to put that on his tomb stone if the wind blows a little too hard. My point is the staff may have been over the top but ultimately it was the safety of the man that was at the heart of it, just think. HEADLINE old man falls on track, staff was neglectful of duties... sound better

clo101 · 2 months ago

Shocking! What an offensive and abusive guy. Hopefully lots of people will send in a complaint form with a link to the clip.

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

every single customer could send in the same complaint and same clip, it would still be only one complaint. You all just want to make an example of the man who barely was abusive and had probably just dealt with a difficult incident involving over a hundred people we only saw footage of the last minute it means nothing.

Andre · 2 months ago

Interesting that this guy Ian lists his religion as Jedi on his FB profile. Maybe he missed the lesson on how "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."

He seems to be right there in the middle.

Samina D · 2 months ago

Thanks for putting this up, no one should tolerate this abusive behaviour. Tube staff think they can get away with murder just because they get away with these fare increases every year. I hope the guy, Ian is sacked, there is no place for him in London. I wonder how many other incidences occur like this and no one reports them. I suggest we all do what Jonathan has done, report future incidence, get out the video cam. (use technology) and rise awareness. For the main time I hope the old man is ok, it must have been shocking for him.

jconrad · 2 months ago

Good man, Jonathan. I would be very surprised if TFL were able to do anything but dismiss this guy for gross misconduct. Then again, they'll probably be a strike; and Bob Crow will come stamping around like the playground bully that he is, talking about how incompetence, rudeness and childishness should be expected from these poor people who work 35 hour weeks and get paid twice as much as nurses.

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

nurses earn 15k ? that is lower than i thought or ur opinion of staffs wages are highly over judged.
The work we do sometimes is far more intense and stressful than nurses and lets not even talk about one unders or even 7/7 i was there you know nothing of our job so get lost.

TJ · 2 months ago

Good for you, I hope they fire the bastard!

After having personally had to bear the brunt of a pissed off driver who decided to try and incite violence towards me by repeatedly announcing over the tannoy that I'd caused everybody massive delay by pulling the emergency cord - even going so far as to quote the carriage number I was in - I am less than impressed by TfL staff

In my case I was wearing a large rucksack and the doors closed as I got on, trapping it. The other members of the carriage tried to help and, while they were doing that a lady got up and pulled the emergency lever - a bit unnecessary perhaps but I guess she thought she was doing the right (and safe!) thing. The train driver came down, decided that it had been me who did it - despite the fact that I was actually attached to my bag as I was wearing it and the lever was at the *other side* of the carriage - and then spent the rest of my journey announcing, at every stop, that he was “sorry for the delay to the service, this was due to the lady in carriage 4 [I think] who felt she had to pull the cord just cause her bag was stuck”.

I wish I’d got his name. I wrote to TfL who told me they were taking it ‘very seriously’ but were unable to reveal the outcome of their investigation due to ‘confidentiality rules’ - what utter tripe!!

Anyway, rant over, it still irks me though - clearly!

Tim Wheatley · 2 months ago

I'm British and now live in the United States.

I'm ashamed to say that nothing would ever convince me to go back to the UK to live. What a shame that is.

James Murphy · 2 months ago

Tim - don't get me wrong here mate. But what bloody relevance has that to the price of sultanas? If you think good service is some braind dead dorris telling you to have a nice day every 8 seconds then you crack on

benevetts · 2 months ago

Oh yeah....that crime free idyll across the seas.

des1411 · 2 months ago

@Dee Blackman. Dee I am sure your father is a nice man and I agree the ponytail is not always a good indicator when judging customer service. Would be it ok if I just refer to Ian as a platform Nazi with no mention of his ponytail?

Mr Omneo · 2 months ago

I've actually witnessed that TfL guy shouting like that in the past. He's a regular little Hitler who seems to think his day-glo vest gives him super powers!

Ibster · 2 months ago

As much as "Ian" was an arsehole & completely out of order, I don't think you should be trying to get someone fired in the current economic climate. He might need re-training or moving to a different area, but who knows whether this was the first incident in an otherwise unblemished record of service (doing a job you fail to acknowledge as dangerous, difficult and demanding)?

You could've just sent this into TfL and blown the whistle if they hadn't acted. Instead,
you've turned this guy's life and livelihood into a web-wide meme that will result in him being held to task for all of TfL's failings, when in reality it's the systematic failures that began decades ago that are the real problem. What Ian did wasn't nice and neither is this.

radapple · 2 months ago

couldnt disagree more

norm · 2 months ago

There's plenty of people who are looking for work that would be more deserving of the training and employment.
Sometimes you do your job so badly that even if it was 1st offence, you just have to go, which this video, backed up with the story (if it can be verified) clearly shows.

They do need to do something about the doors... if you get something trapped in them they just push harder making it impossible to get off, so you just hold up the train - if they close and release slightly then close it'd be much better.

crab · 2 months ago

equally in this current economic climate there are plenty of decent, hard working and polite people who are out of jobs, and could very well do with the space that losing someone like "Ian" would free up.

boothington · 2 months ago

Transport officials seem to have a license to behave outrageously and hide behind the idea that they're 'just doing their job' or enforcing regulations. The transport companies basically operate private constabularies, and instead of keeping them in check, the government and the police instinctively support whatever they do or say.

Earlier this year a bus driver refused to answer me when I politely asked when he was due to set off, then refused any communication with me at all, before flying into a terrifying frenzy of aggression at me, and then refused to drive the bus with me on it, without giving any explanation for it. Instead of getting off the bus, I called the police, and waited 20 minutes for them to turn up, but because he was in a uniform, they accepted his version of events -that I had been 'abusive' in some unspecified way - unquestioningly. I was treated with distrust and suspicion and subjected to a search and extensive questioning about everything in my bag, my career, my home life, what I'd been doing the night before, where I was going today, etc etc and held on the street for half an hour while they tried in vain to find some evidence of wrongdoing on my part that would provide them with a sense of resolution to the situation.

I find that public service workers often treat the public as scum who need to be kept in line, rather than as the people they are paid good money to serve. It's a shame that people just put up with the outrageous behaviour of the private transport companies - the rail companies in particular are given far too much leeway. Look at their online booking systems - they are pinball machines. For an intercity rail journey you could pay anything between £20 and 300 depending on how patient/lucky you are. Just keep going back to the beginning of the booking process and trying again and a different figure will come up. I can't believe the people at the top of these companies are getting away with it, and that the public just put up with it.

raymond66 · 2 months ago

Well, something similar happened to me on a W7 bus on 15 DEC 2008. I didn't call the police, as I tought that when once I was attacked they were not interested at all, so I would go nowhere with this method.

My story seems so unbelievable they would not have believed me anyway. I wrote a complaint letter to TfL: never any reply!

desmarkie · 2 months ago

I hope everyone remembers to wave hello to Ian from now on. Surely false niceness and a cheeky grin will put the wind up him more while we wait for his inevitable demise :)

davidmudkips · 2 months ago

Well done that man, old people and foreign people should be banned from the tube.

caroline6165 · 2 months ago

Absolutely shocking!! Well done for doing what you've done, it's only by following up with things like this that anything will ever be done about it - so many people don't bother to complain. Let's hope Boris rethinks the price increases!

Emi · 2 months ago

Reminds me of a time just over two years ago where I was insulted my a member of staff who worked for Southwest Trains.

He was a real bullying nasty piece of work with a chip on his shoulder.

The ticket machine wouldn't take my money and the person manning the kiosk was on his break. Also the 'permit to travel' machines had long gone. So I decided to pay for my journey at the other end. At my destination I walked up to this man and explained what had happened and that I needed a return ticket, that was what I had the exact money for, and he justgot really really rude from the off. He didn't believe that that was all the money I had and started going on about how I must be from a well off muddle class family and went through university and things. Completely irrelevant stuff. It was clear I wasn't trying to get a free journey on the train, for one thing therecare barriers to get through. He just treated me like a criminal.

His bullying and comments carried on to the point I was in tears and he wouldn't tell me his name so I went back the next day to get it. I made a complaint but all i imagine that happened was a slap on the wrist.

jess (fushmush) · 2 months ago

You have to wonder at all the "don't abuse our staff" posters too. Seems they aren't the ones that need protection from abuse.

Sam · 2 months ago

Good for you in catching this. I agree with everything you said about price rises and falling quality. Everytime I cross the channel and buy underground/train tickets I am always amazed at how cheap tickets are, and more reliable, while we in London get shuffled around like sheep.

I use Holborn a fair bit, gonna keep my eyes open!

Kate · 2 months ago

This is vile behaviour but us Londoners have gotten so used to putting up with sub-standard services that we a pay a fortune for, none of us complain enough. A year or so ago, I had a very nasty experience with a bus driver who couldn't even answer where the bus stopped when customers asked him and spoke to everyone who got on like pieces of crap. When I challenged him (politely I might add) on his behaviour he became aggressive and sexist. Saying 'what do f**cking you know you stupid woman' and things to that effect. He then proceeded to stare at me in the mirror and make leud comments all the way home. I complained to TfL who said they could not tell me the outcome of this man's disciplinary because it was confidential. I only hope he lost his job but I'll never know. When I consider that we are paying customers and deserve to be treated as such, this kind of behaviour makes me so angry! Imagine if you were treated like this in a restaurant or a shop? It really is not on and something has to change. I will be passing this around and hoping justice is done.

bobjones123456789 · 2 months ago

I would love to see the LU Union try to support this worker's actions with walkouts or strike action. Alot of the time they have the publics backing of their actions but if they tried to defend this worker Boris would have to step in or risk his own position. Better to let him go, re-re-train the others so this doesn't happen again.

Noname given · 2 months ago

It would have been nice if this incident had been reported in the correct manner instead of basically loosing a person his job.

His actions were not professional but that does not mean he should be treated any differently than anyone else. Mr MacDonalds actions and those of the media are disreputable and should not be in any way condoned.

Anyone who supports this type of public trial is just ignorant.

Having been on the frontline myself and taken all sorts of abuse including real threats to throw me under the train. (My reply to that was it would only delay the service further).
This member of staff was out of control but I have empathy for the situation and the general public are not always polite. I just hope that LUL conduct a proper investigation and judge this incident properly and not react to the Media or the pompous arrogant Macdonald.

The member of staff involved should be found suitable employment away from the public which I feel he would much prefer anyway.

Lastly if any people do see incidents like this try to report them in an adult and sensible manner rather than trying to boost your own ego and the cost of someones privacy and livelihood.

anon · 2 months ago

Idiot

It happened in PUBLIC and was captured on CCTV

Ex-LUL Staff · 2 months ago

I do not think filming the incident or breaking a bylaw by sticking your arm between doors is the issue.

The issue is about the right to have a fare hearing.

The issue is about peoples perception of underground staff.

Both of these have been damaged by the actions of Mr Macdonald and sadly nothing good will come out of it. The member of staff will probably keep his job on a technicality and probably will not get the training or support he desperately needs.
Customers will continue to think it is o.k. to treat lul staff as second class citizens and lul staff will continue not to think that highly of their customers.

As an aside I would say that just filming an incident and putting on your blog as a bit of social interaction is o.k. However claiming you are in some way qualified to hand out justice in an incident like this is not.

The real culprits in this incident are the unprofessional reporters who did not investigate or give a balanced account and the unprofessional management of the underground who also did very little in providing the facts as to what happened.

Andrew · 2 days ago

Regardless of all of that, the employee looked and sounded too aggressive to represent your company and should be retrained..

Simon · 2 months ago

I pass through Holborn regularly and a couple of months ago I saw this utter arsehole shouting at a couple of young women who were scurrying away from him up down stairs.

I don't know anything else about it but it was definitely him because I've seen him several times. The two women, who were in their early twenties, looked utterly harmless and if their faces were anything to go by they were both clearly shaken.

What goes around comes around I guess.

Rax Lakhani · 2 months ago

Thank God you were there to capture this disgusting little toad. I understand that it is a stressful job, but c'mon! I think that this'll get him the sack... "Sling him under a train...": unacceptable.

Nick Flood · 2 months ago

Nice post Jonathan, I wouldn't be surprised if that bloke is at the job center next week.

What an idiot!

Ian Smith · 2 months ago

I saw something almost identical just 2 days ago. Over-officous platform announcer tells everyone to step behind yellow line on packed platform. Girl with her back to him is over the line. So he pushes er rather roughly behind the line. She is angry at being physically shoved and guy with her (foreign European) asks Tfl guy what he's doing. Suddenly Tfl is telling him he has to "go upstairs to the office". The continual over-use of the word "sir" on the end of every combative phrase he uses only seems to compound his sneering attack. It seems the guy is "looking at the Tfl guy" in a threatening way! So more abuse follows. Then he starts asking the guy what country he's from, if they have no manners and aren't brought up properly in his country. Tells him he can't get on the train and has to go upstairs.

Fortunately the guy did what the guy in your video did and just kept quiet throughout and then got on the train and ignored the loud combative abuse following him on. I didn't have a camera. And because we're British we all just looked the other way and didn't get involved. Felt that if it had been me who'd been picked on I wouldn't have kept quiet and would have punched the obnoxious little Hitler oaf in the face. As you say, it's a disgrace that we pay a fortune for a pathetic service where we're crammed into trains that frequently stop before their advertised destination and then have to put up with bullies like this on top. Disgraceful.

Ben · 2 months ago

Disgusting behaviour from a public employee. But then it's not surprising - this sort of thing has been going on for years, throughout various governments and systems. These people think they're untouchable, they've thought that for years; well, I'm thankful for the technology that puts the power back in our hands. The internet reigns supreme.

jMac · 2 months ago

Thanks all for the comments - I have emailed a number of editors and newsdesks overnight so maybe someone will be interested. I will keep everyone updated.

barneyc · 2 months ago

Shame but I'd be willing to place money on the RMT (or whichever of the obnoxious transport unions Alex belongs to) rallying behind him with support for doing his "tough job" in these "tough times" blah blah blah.

The guy deserves to go. Full stop. He deserves to be publicly humiliated and shown to all prospective employers what a twerp he is.

helloyoucreatives · 2 months ago

Very true, he'll probably just get a paid suspension and a mild telling off.

rob ocallaghan · 2 months ago

Perhaps this comes under Section 4 of the Public Order Act? If so do you have to report it to the police?

Tomi Ahonen · 2 months ago

Hi JMac

Thanks for blogging about this. London is the Olympic host city, it cannot have this kind of "reputation" threatening passengers and if any London Underground employee says even jokingly, in public, that someone should be slung underneath an upcoming train, that person must be fired. Its like an airline person suggesting planting a bomb, etc. There are many deranged people in our cities, and the employeees of the underground can never be heard saying something like that in public, else we may have an outbreak of people following that advice. Not to mention, this man Ian may find someone using that technique on him..

I have blogged about it, and twittered about it and urged all of my readers to post and retweet about it. Luckily you were there to catch it, JMac, it would be unbelievable if not caught on video.

Tomi Ahonen :-)
www.communities-dominate.blogs.com

Toby Champion · 2 months ago

Anger management training needed.

brendanphipps · 2 months ago

Well done Jon, This is power to the people and will go around the internet like wildfire, just like that chav who got knocked out by the ex SAS guy last week.

Name · 2 months ago

Saw this highlighted on a tweet. Jesus. That's awful. I hope it makes the press and he looses his job.

Tani M · 2 months ago

That's ridiculous. I am with you there. Can we file a complaint / write a letter as well?

jowie · 2 months ago

I see this bloke pretty much every day on the eastbound platform on my way home, calling out arriving train information. He always seems very confident and commanding... Obviously he was having a bad day and blaming it on people in an inappropriate way.

Totally well out of line I'll admit, and he should definitely get a warning. But I'll bet you they won't fire him over something like this.

jowie · 2 months ago

Just thought I'd add, this of course doesn't mean the guy is any way in the right... If you see him make sure you tell him what you think of him and let him know that his outburst is now public knowledge!

L · 2 months ago

I am absolutely disgusted. If anyone is a 'jumped up little git', it's most certainly 'Ian'. I'll be spreading the word about this in the hope that we can reduce the number of jumped up little gits on the Underground.

ncameron · 2 months ago

Great work with the video. This is what happens when you F%^k a stranger in the ass in the age of twitter, blogs and youtube.

Name · 2 months ago

Well done for filming this and reporting it to TFL.

aaronsavage · 2 months ago

If you give a little man a little power then he will wield it like a giant. Anyone who has lived in London for any length of time and used the tube regularly will know what a bunch of self important utterly useless officious idiots some TFL staff can be. I’ve witnessed this kind of thing many times. It’s the first time I have seen it recorded though on camera. Well done, People's journalism at its best. Needs to be linked to and tweeted all across the web so that TFL have no choice but to deal incidents like this.

steviep · 2 months ago

its not just tube staff that are rude, the national rail staff at Waterloo are the rudest, least understanding employees of any company I have ever dealt with as a consumer. Their power-mad attitude gets me so irate, and they wonder why they get abused.

djlazarides · 2 months ago

The Paddington ones are bad too - especially the Underground staff - they jeer at disabled and older people. I've even heard one of them call a passenger a "poof"

Tori · 2 months ago

This is just horrendous. Everyone can get stressed at work and I'm sure it's tough in busy situations, but that's no excuse to treat people (who are ultimately his customers) with such disrespect and lack of manners.

It appears as if the commuter was only trying to explain he was caught in the closing doors of the previous train. How could the close on someone anyhow? Was noone watching for when people were actually off the train?

I'd be ashamed if I or anyone I knew behaved that way. He should apologise to the man who I hope wasn't too shaken by it all.

Lucy · 2 months ago

I hope someone sees this and he gets fired. I see him everyday and he is not a friendly guy!

TerenceEden · 2 months ago

The pro-gun lobby often says "A well armed society is a polite society." The implication being that you don't go around being aggressive when anyone could pull a gun on you.

With the rise of sousveillance - where we are all the watchers - I wonder if we'll see a rise in professionalism and politeness. Because, you never know who is recording for posterity.

There are two problems
1) It relies on those higher up to do something. If this Ian chap doesn't get disciplined - you have achieved nothing. Similarly, if after all the videos of police abuses of power (G20, climate camp etc.) no officer gets punished / the rule aren't changed - it's all been for naught.

2) I think people should be polite and professional because IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Not because they're afraid of being punished. Call me old fashioned, but I want to live in a world where people are respectful to one and other - not merely afraid of being caught out.

Well done for filming it. I hope that "Ian" doesn't lose his job - I hope that he realises what an arse he has been and learns to treat customers with a bit more respect.

T

Tony Balmforth · 2 months ago

Thanks for a well-reasoned argument. Unfortunately I can't agree with you that 'Ian' shouldn't lose his job; I very much doubt that he is capable of rehabilitation. Of course, it is very unlikely that he will but there is a good chance that he will experience some repercussions just as a result of his YouTube fame. This is the kind of society that we have built in the last 40 years and it is like pushing water uphill to change it.

Griff · 2 months ago

This is EXACTLY the sort of thing that should make the public forums such as this...social media gives power BACK to consumers and I absolutely agree that this guy should lose his job! Well done for posting, this is indeed shocking in every aspect, this needs to get "out there", no sure which is best route but maybe a Facebook Group focusing on the weaknesses of the Tube and its staff etc!

Tomi Ahonen · 2 months ago

Hi JMac and all who are commenting

A follow-up thought. I am really fuming about this, obviously, haha, and twittering more about it. But a parallel thought hit me - why did the Tube Lady ask you Jonathan to stop video recording? It was obviously NOT to make sure that the truth is preserved and collected. She told you to stop, not because it is dangerous to videotape in the Tube - the only prohibition to cameras in the Tube is "flash photography" to prevent drivers from being blinded. why did she tell you to stop - because she knew perfectly well that what was happening was not acceptable, and SHE wanted there to be no evidence.

Shouldn't we, as a society, have the opposite rule? That as all citizens carry around cameraphones, they would be encouraged to record any cases of bureaucratic abuses, and then share those? wouldn't this result in a better society? imagine the Rodney King beatings in California over a decade ago, the abusive policemen certainly would have preferred that the video recording person would have stopped recording, when they beat up on Mr King. We see this kind of reaction all the time, pull out your cameraphone at a hotel counter or airport check in or yes, talking to someone at the Tube etc, they tell you to stop immediately.

I would argue, they have no right to tell us to stop, but more than that, if any of us see some official insisting someone stop recording, we all should pull out our cameraphones and start to record, to show it is ok, and that the abusive "censorship" will not be tolerated... i will blog about this angle too...

PS happy to see many people commenting here

Tomi Ahonen :-)
www.communities-dominate.blogs.com

Dr J · 2 months ago

As someone who walks with a cane being caught in the doors on or off is always a worry.

To have someone have a go like this at someone who's been caught in a door is unacceptable. Written warning at least. Will be tweeting and pointing people here. Great video and excellent public journalism.

Was in a similar situation in Southwark a year or so back, train too crowded so I stepped back as I wasn't able to full body press myself on. Girl tried to get into the micro space just as the door closed trapping her arm. Station guard besides me raised the flag (possibly not realizing girl was trapped) so I stepped forward and grabbed the poor girl and wrestled her arm free. Interesting exercise when you have a cane and a bad leg. Girl was thankful, guard was unconcerned about the near incident. "The doors were closing she shouldn't have jumped on"...and the guard walked away.

Socrates · 2 months ago

Appalling, simply appalling. You did right blogging this, TFL can only have one course of action. The elderly gentelman does not appear abusive or difficult, yet he is spoken to with no respect whatsover, beggars belief.

Anshuman · 2 months ago

Is there a petition? If there is am happy to sign one, on staff behaviour as well as price increases.

But perhaps more direct action is required to demonstrate we are not sheep. Sit-in at Holborn and other central station platforms? Can organise over Twitter #tflfail?

Alan · 2 months ago

Did you edit out what the man in the grey suit said? I assume he said, or did, something arrestable.

jowie · 2 months ago

Love the way that Ian had absolutely no way of stopping that bloke get on the train. Had he held him back he could have been done for assault.

First he says that the train isn't going anywhere until he gets off, then when he suddenly realises it was an empty threat he resorts to childish verbal abuse...

Notice the black gloves. Does he think he's Gestapo?

hajley · 2 months ago

omg, this needs to be taken further
that poor old guy, we're all going to be old one day
- jonathan this article has stirred my passion for injustice
i'll stay tuned to see how tfl follow this up with ian . . .

stephfriend · 2 months ago

What an awful piece of footage - well done for bringing it to light Jon.

What's the bets that, if this guy does get sacked, Bob Crow will force a strike to defend him?

article_dan · 2 months ago

Unreasonable to the max. Well caught. Should be part of the 2012 Olympic marketing.

I wonder whether TFL might complain that you shouldn't have been filming without a permit...?!

(Have to confess I spent some of the time watching this thinking - JMac has a GREAT camera on his phone!)

Disgusted · 2 months ago

Just shocking. I work just round the corner from Holborn station - I'm extremely tempted to go and give this guy a slap. That would just bring me down to his appalling level so I will resist.
Thanks for exposing this Jon.

Jim · 2 months ago

Well done you!!!!

lisamarielamb · 2 months ago

Please keep us up to date about when he gets the sack.

Peter Hicks · 2 months ago

Unfortunately, this is one LU employee tarnishing the reputation of everybody else. Every big company has a few 'bad actors'.

A CSA's job can be stressful, but there is absolutely no need to take it out on passengers.

Please remember all the helpful, unobtrusive staff that you never really notice and remember they make up the overwhelming majority of customer-facing staff in London Underground.

pete · 2 months ago

Unfortunatelty the over whelming majority of Underground staff I come into contact with on a daily basis are rude, moody and argonant. Granted 'Ian' is an extreme but to say that he is in the minority is plainly inaccurate

Callum · 2 months ago

Although in four years of living in London, and a lifetime spent visiting it; I don't think I've ever met a rude tube worker. They've all been perfectly pleasant. A few bus drivers have been a bit shitty, but compared with the number of buses I've taken in my life the number is infinitessimally small...

In Shock · 2 months ago

Well done mate, hope that what you've done inspires other people to do the same and get the attention of whoever has made the decission of putting the fares up in the middle of such an economic -and social- crisis.

matthewoxley · 2 months ago

I've had bad experiences with transport workers before too. As people have pointed out, Bob Crow defends their behaviour and often encourages it, leading us to the state of affairs we have now, where transport workers are appualingly rude to the public, and the public (customers!) are understanbly unpleasant also.

DataCatalyst · 2 months ago

The form on the description form on the TFL site is laughable - looks more like a game of 'Guess Who'.

Perhaps TFL staff should all wear a clearly visible ID number like Police officers to make them easily identifiable to the Public.

Emanuel · 2 months ago

Posted to my FaceBook wall and all my other social networks, this is just terrible.

ashraf77 · 2 months ago

Absolutely appealing... Well done for posting this...

sheq · 2 months ago

I reckon Ian's motto must be "Repect my authoritaah!"

Bloody hippies. When will they learn?

Yzzy · 2 months ago

I'm a hippie! Ians no hippie.. he clearly has anger issues and superiority issues.

Cara · 2 months ago

Whatever the full facts are - no one deserves to be described as a 'little man', 'a jumped up little git' or a 'little girl like you'. This attitude is simply wrong. On every level.

james · 2 months ago

Thank you for posting this - I wholeheartedly believe that capturing such examples of poor customer 'service' and bringing them to the attention of those who would otherwise be entirely unaware is the only real way to improve the situation, and make those who are substandard think twice about how impotent the customer might be...

Bring it on.

tugwilson · 2 months ago

TfL has posters up which say that the will not tolerate abuse or threats to their staff. I completely support them in this. The other side of the deal is that they should not tolerate abuse or threats from their staff. It's put up or shut up time.

dreamsmall3 · 2 months ago

good work, jonathan. sadly, considering the way TfL treat their customers on a consistent basis, whether it's an unfair tube delay, a problem with Oyster or a member of staff threatening to throw a passenger under a train, you'll be getting an email in 10 days that's a generic apology about train service.

Yzzy · 2 months ago

OH no, this is awful. The 'Ian' guy is utterly despicable and totally abusive. On what grounds was he trying to detain the gentleman? What powers do these 'guards' have if any? As an ex police officer I know I wouldn't have been allowed to speak to any of the people I dealt with in that manner and some of them were quite disgustingly behaved... but I had to keep calm and polite. I have posted this link on www.mamapacks.eu and on my Twitter. Ian is everything I find vomit inducing about 'people with uniforms' ... “I have a uniform therefore I have power” He should NOT be working with the public.

Sheema Siddiqi · 2 months ago

That is absolutely disgusting, but it doesn't surprise me- I have seen TFL staff be rude to customers before. They are overpaid and protected by a strong union, so they don't care.

Darshan · 2 months ago

I HAVE A WORSE STORY!

Back in May, I was on a bus from Marlyebone to Old Street - and this mother with her baby tried to get on the bus just past Farringdon. The driver let her on but shut the doors before she could get pram on to the bus. It got left outside. She screamed for him to open the door but he refused and started to drive off. He drove for whole minute while the mother was shouting and crying - her baby was on the road at the last bus stop! Everyone on the bus was shouting to get the driver to stop. At the roundabout - a police van was on the lane next to us - the driver got them to stop the bus - as he felt threatened.

They got on and did not do anything to help! In fact the driver essentially saw nothing wrong with this. I just saw the mother run towards her baby crying. The driver just did not care. This was the same driver who had let a whole bunch of French tourists off at Baker Street by telling them it was Kings Cross, only ten minutes prior to this incident. He clearly was not right in the head and I complained to TFL straightaway. They said they had had many calls about this baby incident and would let me know.

To this day, I have not heard back. For all I know this careless driver is probably still employed. He is lucky nothing happened to that baby.

Yzzy · 2 months ago

Oh my goodness, I honestly find that hard to believe! I think I would have resorted to violence if my baby had been left by the road.. the driver would have a whole lot of Yzzy all over his face!

Darshan · 2 months ago

I think a lot of the people on the bus were ready to do whatever it took to stop the bus. The driver as definitely on a power trip and the fact that he got the police to stop and help him - shows he was worried that everyone would turn on him. That minute up the road was bad enough for all of us - but must have been horrible for the mother. That baby is very lucky that it was not hit by a car or taken by someone.

TFL could not give a shit about people most of the time. This is what happens when management don't have any incentive to perform and staff just treat their jobs as a shift that needs to be done. You get guys like Ian and this bus driver, who have no reason to perform well.

I find it ironic that Boris used a free paper (the Evening Standard) to announce the fares hike. The man is on another planet. Seriously at some point, everyone should just jump the barriers and lets see what they do!

Jeff · 2 months ago

Truly amazing.
Talk to anyone who travels regularly in London and they've either got a horrible personal story involving TFL staff or have witnessed a something happen to someone else.
Every time I travel on the tube or buses, unfortunately everyday, I get the impression that TFL staff would prefer it if no one used the service, as it would run perfectly.
And you know that's true it would run without a hitch, but the thing is it has to have people on it and most of them travel between 7.30-9.30 in the morning, and have done so since TFL existed. You'd think they'd be used to it by now.

Understandably staff are under pressure, but I've noticed in the past 5 years more and more TFL staff being aggressive and generally unhelpful to customers, sadly I think they make up the majority of staff now particulary on buses.

I don't know about you but before the end of the year, when the fares go up, I'm getting on my bike, or getting myself a scooter. Half the cost, safety in my own hands, no delays and no insults.

Ed · 2 months ago

Surely Boris used the Evening Standard as it's a London-wide paper and now free, and therefore a good vehicle for announcing news. Can't see what's wrong with that.

Darshan · 2 months ago

Ed - the irony is that the Evening Standard is now free because market forces dictated that it can't be sold at a price. The irony is that Boris doesn't see the irony of telling us about (a service with no competition) that we are now going to be forced to pay more, during this economic climate. (It was more just an off the cuff humourous comment - the true story is the TFL management not doing what they are paid to do).

watto_79 · 2 months ago

Well done Jonathon. However I doubt Ian will get fired, although he should be and also reported to the police. The reason he will not be fired is that the Union would get involved and it will end in a strike if he is not given his job back.

oskarokupa · 2 months ago

Sling Ian under the train.

Seriously though, I can't believe that after paying £3.50 for a bloody Tube ticket you are being harrassed, insulted and threatened by a bully with very bad haircult.

In Spain that guy would have been lynched. Plain and simple. We tend to respect elder people there.

I really hope he loses his job. Although I would doubt it. He will probably get a raise for being overzealous.

Trevor · 2 months ago

He will probably lose his job... and then they will strike because his dismissal was 'unfair'.

joned · 2 months ago

Nice one mate! We need to bring up these issues!

I live on Isle of dogs and the DLR and central line is the only way of getting to work (except bike or walking). During the weekend both the DLR and the Jubilee line is down which means the only option is bus which takes forever! I pay £99 for that! And they're gonna make it even more expensive???

madness...

I say, invest in making the underground more effective once and for all so they don't have to close everything every weekend!

Pete · 2 months ago

Fair play - over the years I've been verbally abused and threatened in a similar way, and called a liar when I complained about it. I've seen bus drivers almost hit cyclists and then laugh about it, hit and damage cars then drive off, even physically assault passengers. I've seen tube staff sneer and spit at people who dare to ask questions about a failing service, and make lewd and inappropriate sexual gestures to female passengers. In each case, if it had been a passenger treating staff in this way, TFL would no doubt have prosecuted.

Now we're all carrying video cameras around, this is bound to be the first of many incidents captured until they start to treat passengers with the basic level of human decency and respect they demand - with threat of prosecution - to be treated themselves.

Please send this to everyone you can think of.

Ben · 2 months ago

Good work! Bless little video cameras :) Update us with any outcome!

Ben

ClareBears · 2 months ago

So we are asked not to abuse the staff of the underground but it's ok for the staff to be abusive to customers. Fair play to you Johnathon. If that guy worked for me he'd be out on his ear. There are plenty of people out there wanting jobs who would be nice to customers.

dajaniel · 2 months ago

I complained about a bastard bus driver a short while ago so you'll at least get a very polite, hand-written email back from them apologising profusely.

jtsdst · 2 months ago

Actually there is an alternative, and it's on TFL's website.
Granted it's not for everyone, but I've been doing it for over a year and would not change this for the world.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11598.aspx

Griff · 2 months ago

There is a Transport for London Facebook Group where they refer to dealing with "stupid people" ie the travelling public, I have posted Jon's link there...

Simon Walton · 2 months ago

Please keep us updated. This abusive character needs to be fired from his job. I hope anybody who sees him in person brings up this issue with him.

Sarah · 2 months ago

Well done for this. What utterly disgusting behaviour from the staff. Thank god for the intenet age- hopefully something can be done. Good luck.

Zeno · 2 months ago

Utterly shocking. I especially liked the way you made sure you got the clock and train details on the video. Please let us know what happens with your complaint.

me · 2 months ago

What a jobsworth scumbag Ian is. Typical London Underground Employee. Yet if if we do the same to them we are threatened with arrest and prosecution for harassing staff. Will BT Police prosecute Ian? I think not.

BTW you were legally entitled to keep filming the incident.

corinnalw · 2 months ago

I was told to get off a bus with my 6 week old son, having boarded and folded up his buggy into the luggage section. The driver said he wasnt insured for us. I asked an inspector at the bus station when there would be a bus that we could board. His response - 'dunno, you'll just have to keep waiting'. I asked, 'for how long - all day?' His response 'maybe'. That was it. I waited for over an hour, was refused entry to 2 more buses (Arriva buses in Gtr Manchester), even though I had travelled to town on an identical bus. In the end, I had to walk across town and pay a tenner for a taxi. Public transport is shit!

raymond66 · 2 months ago

"Public transport is shit!"

True. It seems they want people to use cars instead, to produce more CO2, in order to have more good reasons to introduce new "green" taxes...

Shockedbystaff · 2 months ago

This is appalling, surely london transport have to act!

rachelvaisse · 2 months ago

Well done!

joeyshambrook · 2 months ago

i look forward to seeing this in the papers :)

alan · 2 months ago

As a former London Underground employee, I'm feeling a little conflicted watching this video. I could make excuses about the actual stress of the job, which most people would dismiss, because what they think they see is LU staff "standing around all day doing nothing." And I could wonder what the other side of this story is- the old man got his arm caught and then for NO reason at all Ian demanded he go upstairs and talk to a supervisor or the police? Remember, if Ian were THAT lazy and unprofessional it would be a lot easier to just let the man get on a train and go away. However, no matter how lousy a day staff are having there is never an okay time to yell and swear at the public. I think the most revealing comment on this thread is Lucy saying she sees this Ian guy every day and he is not a nice guy. It's more than what someone says somewhere here, that there are always a few bad apples in every large barrel. Apparently Ian IS that bad apple, and should probably go. He obviously isn't enjoying the job much, anyway.

HelloDoris · 2 months ago

Doesn't suprise me. The majority of people working for TFL and all the train/bus companies have never evolved past the monkey stage. I've complained numerous times about rude staff, late running buses, terminating for no reason etc and had nothing but "that's the way it is sometimes". I would be very intrested to see if you do get a response from them. My boyfriend wrote to them once regarding the hike in prices and the crap service including the line "I can't wait to bend over again for you whilst I wait for the expensive reach around", we got a email back saying there was no need for the language and for insulting their staff with threatening behaviour :D
Hope this makes it big, I will be tweeting and FB this to everyone.

Serena Cowdy · 2 months ago

This makes me really upset - well done you for actually doing something about it. I've flagged it up on Twitter etc - do let us know if you hear anything!

Tom Harvey · 2 months ago

You did the right thing, despite what Frank J Gunns' comment says.

J321 · 2 months ago

TFL have many banners & posters around their stations emphasising the importance of protecting their staff from both physical and verbal abuse and that they will prosecute any passengers being abusive.
But what about protecting passengers from their abusive staff??!!

I was verbally abused by a member of staff on the DLR a few months back for not getting off the train quick enough on the final stop before the train was locked down to turn around and start the journey again.
The doors closed and locked and I was left on my own in the carriage with a very abusive man shouting down at me. There was no one around on the platform to witness this so he took his chance of being as nasty & intimidating as possible to me.
The reply to my complaint was feeble and didn't say anything about dealing with the member of staff in question.

I hope this incident above has been dealt with better than my own. Well done for blogging it.

matthewNcube · 2 months ago

"She laughed and walked away – in the assumption that we have no power.

Let’s see shall we?"

Thanks to social media, little people like us can now exercise our power!

michelleplett · 2 months ago

Sadly, i'm not surprised at this. It's shocking but too common.

Rankin · 2 months ago

What an absolute cock.

Lacer · 2 months ago

Good on you for blogging about this, will retweet.

Lacer

Pete Jones · 2 months ago

Right on man. You've set an excellent example on how to react to this sort of thing. Very commendable, I hope TFL react appropriately.

Pete

Gregpipe · 2 months ago

We've all know it can be hard dealing with the great British public from time to time. However, it's usually the agressive ones that cause the problems. This guy is obviously a businessman on his way to a meeting and was certainly not acting in a way that appears confrontational.

On the other hand we have this agressive, long haired LT person who, without the uniform, you'd expect to be the sort of trouble maker I'm sure they moan about a lot. At the end of the day if you can't handle these sort of situations you shouldn't be in the job. When other professionals get in this situation, such as the Police, they get hauled up in front of tribunals or worse, court.

This guy needs to make a public apology and get some anger management training. And what's with those fingerless leather gloves??!! Those add a certain level of agressive style to his appearance.

Without trying to sound like an old git, which I'm not quite yet, get you bl**dy hair cut and learn some manners!!

laughingbrit · 2 months ago

shame you didnt get the whole incident. TFL are a f*cking joke, so is the mayor and the crock of sh*t that is the fare service. each year prices go up way over inflation with ZERO return on service. let's go throw Ian and the rest under a train.

nn · 2 months ago

http://www.facebook.com/NightInc?v=info

Jules · 2 months ago

Totally disgusted about this - maybe a stressful situation for he underground worker but no way to speak to anybody - especially a respected elder. Will def re-tweet this!

serialinsomniac · 2 months ago

I applaud you for bringing this to the attention of readers, TFL and the media. Although I am not a London commuter myself, I visit the city frequently. Whilst the service is handy, I have consistently found the staff rude and not worth the fare. This, however, defies belief.

I sincerely hope that you are right and that Ian will lose his job. Such behaviour has absolutely no room in any service for which you pay (or any for which you don't for that matter!).

Good luck and best wishes.

Mim · 2 months ago

This is one of many reasons why I find London such a hard place to visit and the London underground a mind-boggling perplexity. Being in there always feels a lot like being in a cave where an evil dragon lives- everyone is on edge and no one has time for anyone. Courtesy doesn't exsist in the underground.

I really hope that old man was okay.

carla · 2 months ago

What a horrible man! I hope he does lose his job, I hope that for once the idiots that are in charge do the right thing and make sure that he doesn't ever get to abuse paying customers like that ever again!

Ian · 2 months ago

Facinating. A few years ago I was witness to an assault (litterally under my nose) at Oxford Circus, and was then assaulted by someone else when I intervened to prevent someone being kicked in the head again.

Train was stopped, LU staff arrive, statements are given by myself and several others. After a few minutes they decide to let the train start again and we watch helpless as the two attackers just get on the train and vanish. LU staff made a big fuss about how helpless they are to stop anyone or keep the train in the station till the police turn up, despite two assaults having taken place.

Nice contrast to this.

johnny · 2 months ago

If nothing gets done then given you have a picture of side and front profile, make up some WANTED: posters and stick 'em up around the station.
Maybe it will annoy him so much he'll throw himself under the train (not that I wish that on anyone)

A few less staff is what is needed - it's just the unions won't allow it, so sack people like this and don't get a replacement and that'll help the fill in the black hole of labour's budgetary failures.

ljlondoner · 2 months ago

I know this blog is about how disgusting Ian's behaviour is (and I totally agree that his reaction is disgusting), however, I could make a little video every day to show you how disgusting some passengers behaviour can be. This is possibly the most impolite city I've ever lived in when it comes to public transport. I can imagine working in such an environment may breed suck feeling of contempt towards passengers, however.... Ian should not have said what he said or acted like he did. Chicken and egg people....chicken and egg

Andrew J Scott · 2 months ago

But the point is you dont... perhaps if you did the situation might improve? step by step? ;-) I dont think it is the rudest city, but you're right for public transport as a vertical it might be. I find bus drivers inparticular seem to enjoy being rude and making peoples lives difficult.

That said, they have to deal with the general public day in day out- and in general the general public are pretty horrible themselves...

ljlondoner · 2 months ago

I was talking about public transport in particular. Then again, we're the ones herded on like cattle and told to 'use all the available space' (does someone else's armpit count as 'available space'?) and suffer horrific heat in the summer. It's no wonder we're less that happy travellers...
Bus drivers, some seem to take great joy in watching people sprint for the bus then laugh when they slam the door in their face. Not to mention the 'Hollywood stunt driver' approach... On the other hand, try getting a seat on the bus when you're on crutches...

Mdragon · 2 months ago

I hope the BBC get notified about this i know you did mention the press were told hopefully they were one of them

Andrew J Scott · 2 months ago

I have one thing to say only: #awesome. And I'm not talking about Ians behavior...

Simon · 2 months ago

So who's the bully? One TfL staff member who loses his rag with a truculent passenger (and I note we heard nothing of what the passenger said or did - we only have your blog as 'evidence'), or the thousands of Twitterati who doubtless have rather nicer jobs to do (that allow them to twitter during the working day, for instance)?

johnny · 2 months ago

it's the TFL staff member.

crab · 2 months ago

i tend to lean in favour of the TFL staff member being the bully.

in all fairness people may be tweeting during the day at their lovely rather nice jobs, but you're leaving a comment on a blog

pot kettle black

Fen · 2 months ago

Thanks for highlighting this, I have twittered with your blog link, I hope some sort of justice prevails.

Lindsay Davies · 2 months ago

Good on you for writing this post. Appauling behaviour from TFL employee, which no doubt will cause the man to lose his job. Bringing abusive behaviour into the public domain will make those who deal with the public think twice about how they treat people.

Andy · 2 months ago

Retweeted! I've been to London once in my life and once was enough!

spencer · 2 months ago

its exactly this sort of wanker that made me move as far away from london as possible - its a shame my home town and place of birth has beed reduced to a cesspit of assholes with attitude who strive to use what little power they have in thier positions to make themselves appear important....

Adam Leyton · 2 months ago

Well done for capturing and sharing this. It really is completely unacceptable behaviour.

I sincerely hope that the relevant people not only see this video, but also read and absorb all of the comments that have been made.

alanna1403 · 2 months ago

I've worked in a job where I have to deal with the public and no matter how rude a person is to you (which this man did not appear to be in any way), you have to keep your composure and appear polite and unfazed. Ian displayed disgusting behaviour towards an innocent man and does not deserve to keep his job. There was no call for bad language and abuse such as that which was hurled at the man in question, and in no circumstances should he have commented on him being "slung under a train" - not only is that inappropriate behaviour on the job, that is inappropriate behaviour for a human being!

Dee Blackman · 2 months ago

This is utterly disgusting and unprofessional, I am shocked and appalled. If London Underground does not investigate this complaint with efficiency and ensure that this members of staff is disciplined or dismissed then they will be failing both the passengers of their service and the platform staff who do work incredibly hard to deliver a professional customer service. His female co-worker should also be held accountable for her inability to address the situation professionally and direct her colleague into showing respect and consideration for the passengers. It seems that some of the money acquired with the fare inflations should be invested in retraining staff!

davidmerry · 2 months ago

Wow this is really doing the rounds on facebook/twitter/company emails. Well done for raising awareness against people like Ian who don't deserve a job in these times.

norm · 2 months ago

As it's getting popular, hows about a flashmob, 1430@holborn - everyone sticks their arms in the door of a train and see if he's there.

dannydenhard · 2 months ago

Great blog post, that is a disgrace and if this happened anywhere other than in London that jerk would have been sacked on the spot!
I know a couple of underground workers and they aren't all like that so let's hope he is on his own in the way he treated the poor guy.

pulex · 2 months ago

This is brilliant! I think you showed great presence of mind in filming this but not getting too involved in the incident ie sticking your oar in and aggravating the situation. Not sure where you stand if you carried on filming as you were on TFL property, usually for any "formal" filming permission has to be sought. Can anyone clarify? Not sure if Ian should be losing his job though, as the public en-mass is pretty disgusting and his job probably isn't conducted in the most serene and calm environment. Bollocking, formal apology and customer relations training may be a less reactionary approach. Regardless of what went on before you started filming, what he did was wrong. Good for you!

FamousRob · 2 months ago

I assume you've seen Boris' tweet saying it will be investigated.

neil321 · 2 months ago

you didn't have to stop filming just cos she asked you to. they are filming you constantly so it's only fair that we can film them. the only legitimate reason they can give for stopping you filming is if you are filming for terrorists, which clearly isn't the case.

Tom · 2 months ago

If he loses his job, the RMT union will strike and that will cause chaos.

Considering its our money that pays for the rudest, most poorly trained staff in the public sector, we have very little power when it comes down to it. It's unacceptable and the staff on the London Underground are a law unto themselves.

I use Holborn station every day and have seen Ian numerous times. I'll be watching him very closely from this day forth.

Lucy · 2 months ago

I disagree. I've been commuting for 7 years and know that he is an exception. The staff I meet on the Met and Bakerloo lines everyday are kind, courteous and smart, consumate proffessionals. What this guy does is unforgivable but I imagine that working in the dark all day, trying to get an ancient system to run on time and helping silent, grumpy commuters who ignore you and only ever speak to you when they need to complain is enough to send anyone over the edge. Saying that Ian's actions are proof that TFL staff are bad is like saying that Vanessa George's actions proove all nursery staff are all evil.

radapple · 2 months ago

Just seen the mayor of london has tweeted about this

"Appalled by the video. Have asked TfL to investigate urgently. Abuse by passengers or staff is never acceptable."

ruairidh · 2 months ago

bravo.

I hate the 80s · 2 months ago

A druggie with long hair in a pony tail telling an old man he's a little girl. I don't get it!

blogwatcher · 2 months ago

gosh you can tell when people take drugs just by looking at a video clip, will you teach me

Gavin Murdock · 2 months ago

While cycling in South-East London recently I was almost injured when a bus driver overtook me in the bus lane and then pulled in sharply while alongside me forcing me to mount the pavement. I challenged his behaviour and he swore at me and was aggressive. I took a photo of him and his bus using my phone and made a complaint. I got a reply apologising and saying that they had identified him and that he would be interviewed but that due to confidentiality I would not be entitled to know the outcome.
Basically complaining doesn't seem to achieve anything unless you have media contacts and can embarrass the authorities into action.

danny74 · 2 months ago

More people need to start filming incidents like this...and maybe post them here.

This is horrendous

pavs · 2 months ago

Way to go! I think it is very important to comment on this. It's very easy for all public services offices to have these sign boards that say 'please do not be rude to any member of staff...' but I've seen this kind of behaviour in so many places such as the Post Office, underground etc.

chirlemann · 2 months ago

Well done for making the video and double well done for making the complaint. We seem to live in a society where nice people can be trampled on. I certainly hope that the gentleman suffering the abuse (not old by the way, just wise!) is OK.

I certainly hope that the underground worker is fired, if not for his out burst or just for shouting at a paying customer then certainly for using abusing (and in my view also threatening) language (swearing in public is actually illegal under section 5, ask any policeman). This is the kind of behaviour I would expect from an uneducated teenager (even then it would not be acceptable), not a grown man who is at work.

I am absolutly disgusted by what I saw and hope that your actions will stop (or reduce) future occurences.

There is a comment suggesting that the worker may have suffered abuse himself from other passengers. This may be true but is not an excuse for anyone working any where to react in such a way (no civil person anyway). It is his job to manage the passengers, that does not mean he is not allowed to be frustrated, angry, upset, bored, tired or plain not like his job, all of these would be unfortunate and sad but no excuse to take it out on some poor sole only trying to get from A to B (not to mention being attacked by a door because staff did not ensure everyone was off the train!

I hope others are able to get from A to B without being insulted and abused.

Ian · 2 months ago

The Telegraph has it

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and...

NCreswell · 2 months ago

This doesn't just happen on the tube, check out what happened to me on 18 May 09. I posted this complaint below to the TFL website the next day, had a phone call to acknowledge receipt and for an initial discussion, and then that was it.

How long til lack of staff training and disregard for customers by staff results in a fatality?

====

I am shocked this evening by an incident involving the driver of the no. 24 bus, at Warren St bus station.

I was travelling from Charing Cross Road on a no. 24 service that terminated at Warren St; I was travelling to Camden Town, and on exiting that bus, noticed another no. 24 that was parked about three buses back (and therefore some distance from the stand), onto which other passengers were embarking. I moved to board it, but as I was listening to music on headphones (which were clearly visible, with white cord), I did not hear whether a beep signalled that the doors were closing. I therefore put my left foot onto the floor of the bus to board, and at that exact moment the driver closed the doors, resulting in my foot being trapped in the door; as I was not running toward the bus, he must have been fully aware that I was there, but decided to close the door on me regardless. I tried, of course, to remove my foot from the door, but it was firmly stuck, and it was clear in that split-second that the driver was planning to drive ahead.

Aware as I was of the case last year of the passenger who was crushed by a bendy bus in Hackney after his foot was trapped in the door, I was instantly concerned that I could be in significant danger of being dragged under the wheel of the bus within seconds, so I vigorously banged on the door of the bus to alert the driver. As a result he did not move the bus forward and he opened the doors, and then immediately came out of his cab and started shouting at me in an aggressive and threatening manner. He instantly assumed I was an aggressive passenger who was behaving unreasonably over not being allowed on the bus, and he was entirely unaware of the danger in which he had placed me. Shaken as I was, I responded with equal vigour and volume, and as a result he finally seemed to understand what had happened. He made no attempt to apologise, or to show any concern about the potentially lethal situation in which he had placed me. Shortly before disembarking, I went back to his cab to ask in a calmer manner whether he understood why I had acted the way I did; he indicated that he did understand this, but again expressed no concern or regret about the potentially hazardous situation in which he had placed me. When I then asked him for his driver number, he asked why, before then reluctantly providing this to me; his number was not clearly visible on his uniform or his cab.

I accept that the driver must often deal with unreasonable passengers; however, the situation in which he placed me, by deliberately closing the door on me and trapping my foot as I tried to board, had the potential to be extremely dangerous and potentially even fatal. And his response, particuarly when I made him aware what had actually happened, was utterly unacceptable. It is quite apparent that he has not been giving effective training on how to deal with such situations -- either on operating the bus doors in a safe, responsible and considerate manner, or on how to handle upset customers. Furthermore, a key factor here seems to be that he was rushing to move the bus closer to the stand, as he subsequently did this to allow other passengers to board; his haste to do this seems to have been the primary reason why he was rushing, and closed the doors on me. I expect assurances and evidence that he has been made fully aware of the potential consequences of his actions, and also that learning comes from this that is then passed on to all drivers.

As it turned out, I was not harmed by this situation, although I was shocked and disturbed by the way in which the driver shouted at me, after he had put me in such danger, and this was seconds away from being a very serious and potentially fatal accident. I want TfL to acknowledge what happened and the reasons for it, and to explain to me how it will change the way it operates as a result.

C T · 2 months ago

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/tflaccountable/ I started this after I got no response from TFL - see my story below

kyliekyles · 2 months ago

What a jumped up little git Ian is! How dare he talk to a paying passenger like that! Him losing his job would not be too much to ask, if i started screaming abuse like that at someone in the street I'd probably get an ASBO or something he deserves just as much as well as losing his job. I'm glad i'm never around when these things happen because I refuse to ever stand back and watch! Well done on filming it and getting evidence I hope the gentleman wasn't too stressed out about it, I imagine he felt quite humiliated. But hey like anyone could ask for justice in this country!

C T · 2 months ago

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/tflaccountable/

Chewie · 2 months ago

Nothing will happen to Ian, the London tube has no power to sack people else they just get sued or the entire union goes on strike.

blogwatcher · 2 months ago

rubbish you talking out of yor behind

lovesgym · 2 months ago

Just cannot believe how rude this man was - this man should not be working in the public sector as he is nothing more than a bully - I am glad the man stood his ground and carried on alighting the train, but this should not be an end to the matter, this behaviour was disgraceful and should be investigated immediately -

C T · 2 months ago

I was abused verbally and threatened by a TFL worker at New Cross Station who then shut the ticket office at 8.35am and pulled down the blind. My crime? Asking for him to check how much was on my Oyster card before topping it up, which he refused to do. When I moved to another window he made that member of staff leave his post to "deal with me". He was over 6ft and scary. I am a 5ft woman. It was caught on CCTV but TFL refused to give either me or the police a satisfactory apology or explanation as to what action they took. I had to stop using the station and walk to New Cross Gate every day instead as a result because the police advised that TFL would back the man if it went to court and I could end up with a police record. This counrty sucks.

Yzzy · 2 months ago

@MayorOfLondon Appalled by the video. Have asked TfL to investigate urgently. Abuse by passengers or staff is never acceptable.

Sue Acres · 2 months ago

Awful, just awful. I hope there is a disciplinary procedure as a result of this, to find out why the employee behaved the way he did and to take measures to stop this from happening again. But lets not tar all LU employees with the same brush. There are many many LU staff who do a great job, and the staff are not responsible for overcrowed trains, old stock or even fare rises.

Mcpete · 2 months ago

I haven't read through all the comments that precede me, but there does seem to be a lack of finger pointing towards the elderly gentleman - as has been mentioned, the TFL staff deal with customers day in, day out. If he had not done something particularly antagonistic, this confrontation would not have occurred - 'Ian' would not have a job if he was such a loose cannon with the general public.

I also find it strange that the guy had his arm in the door, and the train had to terminate at this station for 'an unknown reason' - is it not possible that the guy tried to ensure he got on the train by sticking his arm into the door, and subsequently caused the service to have to terminate? If the guy then argued with the staff over what the problem was with him sticking his arm in the door and breaking trains, I can imagine that this would cause some tension? They do warn that trying to hold the doors can take the trains out of service, so this must be one of the examples of this happening.

Just to clarify, I do not condone what 'Ian' said to the gentleman - but do we not all have off days?

I personally find London to be, as many of you have said, one of the most rude and impolite places to travel in that I have ever known. I am regularly disgusted by the treatment of myself and others by the general public, and their lack of care for their fellow man. I would not be able to do 'Ian's job for long without having some sort of breakdown, so I find it hard to criticise him for lashing out.

A final question for you: Who would we be blaming right now if, in the same situation, 'Ian' hadn't told the guy to get behind the yellow line, and he subsequently got hit by the train...erm...'Ian' again? The blog would then of taken the form of 'Gross Negligence by TFL Employee, caught on camera, caused elderly mans death' - Kinda his fault whatever happened in this one isn't it.

Ian · 2 months ago

I think you're building quite a story there from no evidence. It's entirely plausable that the doors were just closed on him while he was trying to get through, I've had that happen to me and you will tend to get your arm traped as you instinctibly pull yourself backwards but your arms dont get out of the way in time. In fact its quite common for them to try and close the door while people are still trying to get off, never mind letting people board the train.

Personally if the man didn't get behind the yellow line when asked and was hit, I'd blame the man. But there you go.

rob · 2 months ago

not sure what planet you live on, but evidently not planet london during rush hour. when the platform is busy the yellow line is irrelevant. when there are lots of people, you have to force your way onto the trains to get anywhere.

Ed · 2 months ago

I'd say it was irrelevant how the elderly man behaved. People in positions of customer service should not behave like this Ian guy did.

Reporting him was definitely the right thing to do. I would also say it's good to commend staff when they do a good job. I did that once about a lovely guy at West Acton station who looked after my girlfriend when she was feeling faint. There are bad apples around, but most staff I've ever encountered on a personal level (i.e. more than just observing them in the station) have been really good.

unclesam21 · 2 months ago

I think we should all go down to Holborn and push Ian under a train. If that was my father being spoken to that way by some minimum wage Muppet with a pony tail I would have swiftly headbutted him. I pass through Holborn station every day on the way to work, I'm going to see if I can abuse Ian every day for the next couple of weeks, maybe shout cunt at him every time I see hime.

If TFL have any sense they should banish him to the end of the line so people don't throw eggs at him.

Ian · 2 months ago

Of course all the comments like this (which I can quite understand) will leave poor Ian feeling threatened and he'll probably be off work sick with stress for a while as a result.

KatieBing · 2 months ago

Wow - that's a really really sensible idea. "Let's go and push Ian under a train". You are showing yourself to be just as big a bully as Ian was.

Sarah · 2 months ago

Is that what all those "person under a train" announcements are about on the Central Line (anyone ever notice how it's always the Central?). It was Ian!

Shark · 2 months ago

I suggest tweeting Boris to ask for the removal of this vile station attendant.

http://twitter.com/MayorOfLondon

nariek · 2 months ago

I love you man. You're like the Batman of the Underground; fighting crime and injustice.

MarkB58 · 2 months ago

Well done you!! We need more people to take an interest and disseminate stories like this.

No doubt if TFL sacks him there will be a Tube strike (let's not forget that the RMT undertook strike action to back up four employees sacked after 60 something lager cans were found in the common room at Farringdon, i think it was...)

Having said that, not all TFL people are like this. For every Ian, there are some of the wonderful and helpful staff I have encountered in the past few years.

This is primarily a training and recruitment issue. Recruit the wrong people and don't train them properly and you have this kind of impossible behaviour. TFL employees need to be reminded that in a very real way, the passengers are paying their wages, almost directly.

On a more macro point, TFL does a decent job I think with an infrastructure that was woefully underfunded for 20 (Tory) years and is hence in a serious state of underrepair. Poor union practices have not helped. Quite what will happen once the Cameroonies get in and Boris cuts £5bn off its budget in the next five years God only knows. As Ken said, when he left office, there was a £1.5bn surplus. What the hell has the blonde buffoon done with it?

badger79 · 2 months ago

Sigh. Typical Labour fanboy, blaming the problems on the Tories despite there being ample opportunity for Labour to put things right during their last TWELVE years in power. I bet you think that the recession was caused by the Tories too, and Gordon has done a stellar job in fixing their mess...

If Ken left a 1.5bn surplus, why didn't he spend it on TFL instead of leaving it as a surplus?

MarkB58 · 2 months ago

Oh, have no fear, I am no dyed-in-the-wool Labour fan either, but reversing decades of underfunding preceded by a decade of economic disaster (under Labour) can't be done overnight. My dad spent most of his career in the NHS and there are still capital spending surpluses - as I suspect there are with TFL - simply because you just can't automatically spend money on capital projects (lack of construction facilities, planning etc). Look at what Thames Water are doing at the moment, digging up virtually every street in the capital because they've spent most of the time since privatisation sitting on their arses and lining shareholders' pockets with money squeezed from the system.


The Tories will - unfortunately - try their old tactics to save money; imagined cutting red tape (which never happens), targeting benefit cheats (which, surprisingly, yields nowhere near as much money as they say) and lining their own pockets with things like cutting Inheritance Tax on the rich (Cameron himself will be £500k better off, apparently)

TFL will limp along during a Conservative government, with capital spending cut back thanks to the current government's stupidity, and every project, scheme and service will be subjected to the usual unrealistic Market Forces thinking, meaning London's commuters will suffer years more misery.

The reason these things are better in France, Germany, Spain and Japan is that they spend MORE money consistently and keep things properly maintained. True market forces cannot solve every problem.

Randy Goldman · 2 months ago

Yes, you can make a difference. The people are the power and have the final authority everywhere on this planet. Take your power back. How? Glad you asked.
Everyone who uses that station, say "Hello, Ian" everytime you see him. Ask him, "How's that older gentleman, Ian?" everytime you pass him. Hold the mayor accountable if he has indeed claimed he is investigating. Expect results to be published. Use this forum, Youtube, Facebook, and especially Twitter to keep this issue alive and at the forefront of public conciousness. Do not expect tangible results and improvements in a few days or weeks. This, my friends, is an eternal struggle. If a majority of you expect this situation to improve, and are willing to take political action to that end, then the powers-that-be must take you into account. Never Give Up.

alison · 2 months ago

Well done for posting this video. In future I'll do the same.

Bus drivers are often rude bullies aswell. Why should we pay more to be bullied and abused or sometimes simply ignored by these people who are there to do a service job? I accept that there are sometimes rude passengers but it all starts with the attitude of staff and goes from there. If you are rude, bullying, aggressive and nasty towards passengers you encourage a culture of the same in people using the service. I am fed up with paying more and more to these people. To see an older calm passenger like that so viciously verbally abused is disgusting but not untypical.

Generally bus drivers ignore passengers or treat them with contempt.

On one occasion I complimented a bus driver on his charming and nice approach to passengers. The no 38 bus route has so few drivers like this it was worth extending some gratitude because it made ALL the difference to the bus journey.

wattsicle · 2 months ago

This guy deserves to lose his job. What an utter disgrace. Clearly there are young people and children present and they shouldn not be witnessing such foul language and appalling behaviour by one human being to another. Welldone for standing up for the 'little man'. I would like to see TFL's response to this.

damiendebarra · 2 months ago

Beautiful. Well done.

Lanon · 2 months ago

Just Typical of the levels of service you get pretty much anywhere on london transport. i think what the RMT and TFL need to start to comprehend is that they now have very little sympathy from any of us. They strike repeatedly for more pay, they strike if someone gets fired. They have far far to much power, are overpaid and very few have the brains to deal with a little overcrowding on stairs let alone moving vehicles. Think Boris needs to send some top bods abroad to other cities to see how its done and then start again here. Plenty of people need and want work and would probably do a better job for far less than some of the current lot.

oliver · 2 months ago

well done sir! i hope this kicks off a storm of complaints against the TFL, too long have we put up with inflation and nothing to show for it but busy, hot, rickerty trains. i have given up on the tube and have looked to busses for my transport, never looked back!

Alex · 2 months ago

Good work on capturing this moment and remaining calm and 'professional' yourself (something Ian should have been). You've gone about all of this via the right channels. Not smashing into the situation at the time, raising it through their own complaint channels and making them aware of the issue and that you are going to press with it, and mostly for making the public so aware of the situation. Very commendable work on your part. I hope justice is served in this instance. Its just a shame that things have to become of such public interest before companies (TFL and others) 'care' about issues enough to deal with them.

Jax76 · 2 months ago

He verballed abused me last year too! 3rd July 2008 to be precise. I'd approached him as Holborn station was really, really overcrowed and I was a worried about the volume of people still coming down on the escalator. He was round the corner from the escalators so I went up to him and asked if he could do anything as it was so crowded it made me a bit panicy (I used the station every day so it wasn't like I couldn't judge when it was much, much busier than normal.) Anyway, as soon as I opened my mouth he started screaming at me. It was just a complete flip out, demanding to see my 'license'. He was insane. I made a complaint to the station manager at the time but was so shaken by it that I wrote to London Underground too and was told that the incident had been recorded on his record. I'd approuched him calmly and politely with a safety concern... I hope to god nothing ever happened at Holborn where the public relied on this man to protect or help them.

alison · 2 months ago

Oh and if you start saying anything to Ian over the next few weeks when you see him that great big girl will cry off work sick on full pay, supported by the whiny girly Union, followed by an inevitable strike etc etc. People should start using their cameraphones all the time until they have nowhere to move. Only in London would you hear language and clear bullying like that levelled at a passenger.

Nick · 2 months ago

Whenever I travel in London I find the tube intimidating as I always get lost. Thus, I often ask a member of staff. Most don't look at you, most are dismissive, some treat you like an idiot.

In comparison, travelling on the Metro, in France is a revelation. Airy, clean, modern stations with sensible signage, polite staff - even with my dreadful French - oh, and it costs half as much, the trains are on time, don't stop half way around, the lights don't flicker on and off - it's a world away.

sdiggady · 2 months ago

Anyone going through Holborn station tonight please look out for him and shout "sling him under the train" at him... I for one will be doing this.

shazinboots · 2 months ago

Well done you, its about time we began standing up to thses bullies who clearly get a kick out of bullying. I had an experience recently with a conductor who pushed my friend off the tram we were on and into the path of an oncoming vehicle, because she didnt wait untill other passenngers climbed off before she got on! I argued with the conductor and got a similar response to this poor gentleman on the train. These jobsworths feel powerful when they put on a uniform, and forget they are there to serve US! Manners cost nothing and that video footage sickened me.

Ooopsy · 2 months ago

My god, utterly disgusting. Well done and thank you for having the guts to take action on this outrageous behaviour. :)

Graham.Creative.me · 2 months ago

Utterly disgusting. If there's no follow up to this then It's an outrage. I want these people to help and protect. They're PSA (Passenger Service Assistants) aren't they? Where was the 'service' and 'assistance' here? Perhaps he was employed as a POOT (Passenger-Oppressive Officious Tw@t) instead.

Was the elderly gentleman a threat to our well being and safety? Perhaps secretly violent? Abusive? From what I can see, he was none of these. And as you're account of him being calm throughout, whilst the guy shouts loudly to let others know of his powerful status shows, his responses were unacceptable.

The final comment though, unless this chap was a new wave of elderly suited terrorists, is surely a sackable offence?

As I'm sure he'd approve of – shut the door on his beard and set let the train go.

FutureCon · 2 months ago

This is what the internet does best, and it will be very interesting to see what results come from this. Very well done on your work Mr. MacDonald!

Extra kudos points to whoever is the first to get this into one of the free London newspapers (Metro or Lite) as a letter or txt :)

richardcornes · 2 months ago

Good man for filming! I'm passing on on fbk... Richard Cornes, Hackney

Graham.Creative.me · 2 months ago

Utterly disgusting. If there's no follow up to this then it's an outrage. I want these people to help and protect. They're PSA (Passenger Service Assistants) aren't they? Where was the 'service' and 'assistance' here? Perhaps he was employed as a POOT (Passenger-Oppressive Officious Tw@t) instead.

Was the elderly gentleman a threat to our well being and safety? Perhaps secretly violent? Abusive? From what I can see, he was none of these. And as your account of him being calm throughout – whilst the guy shouts loudly to let others know of his powerful status shows – his response was unacceptable.

The final comment, unless this chap was a new wave of elderly suited terrorists, is surely a sackable offence?

As I'm sure he'd approve of – shut the door on his beard and set let the train go.

Name · 2 months ago

Would be fascinated to see how this one travels. Will be certainly watching the media with interest

Nicolas O'Brien · 2 months ago

Horrific news but "She laughed and walked away as if we have now power"? Maybe she just knew how much of a wanker that guard was beforehand and was just pleased to see him loose his job.

Name · 2 months ago

Added my complaint to their site and twittered.

Abigail · 2 months ago

Good for you! Every journey on the tube at rush hour is awful, for the Underground staff as well as the passengers, but this Ian guy is disgusting! He should be sacked, but I expect he will just get time off for 'stress' on full pay and be re-instated within a month.

clare · 2 months ago

Looks like BoJo has taken notice. Kudos to you! Seems that we should all film the abusive @rses in charge of making themselves feel important.

paullondon · 2 months ago

It's reached the TV. Watch BBC1 London News after the main 1pm news now on.

Contrarymary · 2 months ago

Because he is Caucasian. Any other race would have been embraced and coddled, in hopes they didn't sue or go public and make the employees look racist. Discrimination to the elderly is acceptable eh Ian. But I bet you aint never threatened a black person huh? You are a piece of human garbage.

Ibster · 2 months ago

And it's comments like this one and similar ones suggesting that people go down to Holborn to have a got at "Ian" that show just how ill-advised and awful posting this was.

Matt · 2 months ago

Haha, brilliantly done. They can't ignor the fact BoJo has tweeted about it, and the fact it's also on the news.

dave_910 · 2 months ago

ian's a long haired cunt who needs to be put down!

Name · 2 months ago

but if he gets sacked, surely this will invoke months of strikes in 'support' of him!!
he's a cock

Sulthana · 2 months ago

wicked! we do have some power as people, we should not forget that, in this day of being able to record anything and alert anyone! excellently written and actioned!

Saffron Stocker · 2 months ago

he is vile. nobody in a customer service role ever has need to speak to anyone in the disgusting manner displayed in this video. well done for filming it.

rayray693 · 2 months ago

Someone should tell Ian that Francis Rossi from Status Quo called and he wants his ponytail back! What a jumped up little upstart if I'd been there I would have ordered him wash his mouth out!

shazinboots · 2 months ago

https://custserv.tfl.gov.uk/icss_csip/ZCreateRe...

We should all use this link and bombard them with a complaint.

Marcus · 2 months ago

Thanks for the blog and the awareness, it's good to know people can take the time to right a huge, ugly wrong.

Dean W · 2 months ago

Horrible abusive bullying. Good on you for making this public.

0_TomG_0 · 2 months ago

Utterly disgusting, if he was a random punter I'd find this pretty gross, but considering he's one of the staff paid to help people like the old fella makes it even more revolting.

If he doesn't lose his job I'll be pretty pissed.

Most TFL staff are really helpful and great. Sad little people jumped up on faux-authority have given them a bad name today however.

Hopefully Boris heads underground after his lunchtime pints and pulls this prat out by his ear. Now that would be a photo op.

Oh, and what grown man rocks a ponytail in this day and age? Twat.

murrayabisch · 2 months ago

My answer to the vile staff, the overpriced so-called service, and the lack of a decent service is to cycle as much as possible. Try it. You'll find it enjoyable, and less stressful.

Yzzy · 2 months ago

Well done... just saw it on BBC London news... :-)

kitsta · 2 months ago

Have you sent this to the Mayor's office. And Newsnight? Not dissimilar to stories they have run in the past on police behaviour during G20.

What does everyone say to motivating Londoners to boycott the Tube for one day in the year - a small reminder of who pays their wages.

Vie · 2 months ago

Well done on your quick thinking and public spiritedness, Jonathan mate. Just saw your vid on BBC London News. I wish you or someone like you could be around every time a bully embarked on a rant.

steve103 · 2 months ago

Sack him. There are many others who would like his job, a no doubt do a much better job than this idiot.

Laura · 2 months ago

If only there were more people like you about when such things happen. We need more people to stand up to bullys!

0_TomG_0 · 2 months ago

my pal just sent me Ian's facebook...
Is this the guy?
http://www.facebook.com/NightInc?v=wall&so=15

One of his pals just wrote "DAMM MAN...I JUST SAW YOU ON T.V."
Today won't be a fun day to be Ian.

rongraves · 2 months ago

Excellent piece of reportage - well done. And yes, sling the bugger out.

Jamie Riddell · 2 months ago

Wow, there is no need for anyone to lose their cool, no need to swear at someone. Whatever happened to 'the customer is always right'?

Neville · 2 months ago

The tube is a service, it's exists for the public.. oh and we pay his wages though taxation and ticket purchase....

Politeness costs nothing. The elderly gentlemen wasn't shouting and swearing at him or acting in a threatening way.

This guy Ian at least should be made to resolve his anger issues, should probably be confined to a back office (no access to the public) until his issues are resolved and as others have mentioned his employment has to be brought into question.

NeilOJWilliams · 2 months ago

Totally uncalled for. Watching this with interest!

David · 2 months ago

Thanks for the blog post. I don't see why we should be paying for an increased fare for people like Ian who is obviously not suited to this job...

danielz000 · 2 months ago

Just found this blog on DerrenBrown's twitter account.

Good work Jonathan! I wish you'd caught the entire incident!

Fingers crossed he will get sacked!

tjmreds · 2 months ago

Good work: Now on the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8310965.stm

jamesmurphy1 · 2 months ago

I think this was perfectly justified - people must learn to respect the staff on the Underground

Bounce · 2 months ago

Maybe you're Ians brother?

James Murphy · 2 months ago

No - I simply understand the stress that is put on TfL staff by angry commuters who refer to them as "animals"

Bounce · 2 months ago

Please - my judgement of his behaviour is reasonable as I was on the receiving end. His style appears to have change little in a year judging from the video above.

I'll admit I was shocked at the time - as the guy who handle our complaint noted - but not so much "angry" as you've made out. It's not an easy game to play when generalising but the facts in the video above - as well as at least one complaint - pretty much speak for themselves. Anything to add?

Named · 1 month ago

This was all perfectly justified

People must learn to respect the staff on the Underground OR they will be thrown under a train! So there!

robrich · 2 months ago

This is beyond belief. However, the RMT will probably call a strike ballot if any disciplinary action is taken against him. I for one am fed up with the shoddy service we receive from LU and am all for the boycott which has been mentioned above. I'll find other ways to get to work if it means that we can demonstrate to them that they are in PUBLIC SERVICE.

We do not expect them to be subservient, merely be polite and to help.

Rob R, London

Name · 2 months ago

This makes me angry - seeing some jumped up self important lad yelling at not only a customer, but an older gentleman who he should be showing respect for due to age and good customer service -it's disgusting. I'm glad that the gent got on the train, and even more glad that you have filmed it- maybe it will help in the battle against bullying.
This guy wants to prove he's important and powerful. I hope he gets laid off for this, and suffers the kind of embarasment and shame that he deserves.

Krist Foil · 2 months ago

Nutella Please!

Irving David · 2 months ago

This is disgusting - has nayone contacted Boris?

davro · 2 months ago

I think a flashmob should be organized to meet-up at holborn station on Monday morning, find Ian then everyone should point there finger of shame and shout "Shame on you" repeat 30 times.

tiggeriffic · 2 months ago

The bit I find most amusing is the amount of people that are shocked by Ian's behaviour. Every single time I have been to London (which is quite often) I have come into contact or witnessed someone with in the "customer service" field being rude and offensive! From events staff to tube staff to people in coffee shops. The one thing London lacks is manners and decency! Its such a shame because the family and friends I have in London are all lovely. It just seems that a lot of peopl that work there hate their lives so much that they feel the need to be utter twats! If every person who was offensive like this was filmed then there would suddenly be thousands of vacancies in London!

tdrysdale · 2 months ago

Good on you Jonathan, glad you caught this idiot on film. Too many times these stuck up jobsworths get away with foul and unnecessary language.

Looks like Boris has asked the TfL to investigate.

joshdhaliwal · 2 months ago

Well done mate!

davidherron · 2 months ago

I have come under this sort of stress on the tube before!
I can not live in london as I am fearful that I may one day flip and end up in jail, such is the stress and misery of the place.
my advise ....get out while you still can

but yes you have my support on all these issues and yes its very expensive and unfair

Bounce · 2 months ago

Shocking but to be realistic all too common from our friends at TfL. Me and my girlfriend met this guy last year and filed a complaint - but how many others can be bothered with doing that at the end of the day.

This guy was behaving like an animal when we met him but I've met other breeds in TfL uniform. One guy at Warren Street who was meant to be helping passangers even went so far as suggesting I get any refund from the guy who had fell in front of a train... charming... Must be Ians brother...

Anthony · 2 months ago

Was in London during August 2009. Stayed in Slough and travelled in each day for a week. Staff at Slough railway station honestly could not do enough to help.

Attitudes seemed to change when in the centre of London though - overworked and underpaid perhaps? Some people think the rest of the world owes them a living.

'Ian' will be a worried man tonight.

name2 · 2 months ago

"overworked and underpaid"

It's more the other way round... makes them feel like they are important and are somehow better than those earning less and working harder.

stephenmarsh · 2 months ago

It doesn't surprise me. 12 years ago my wife, who at the time was 8 months pregnant, was asked to get off a bus outside Peter Jones because she rolled her eyes when asked to show her ticket for the second time in 10 seconds (she had only just put it away). The bus driver refused to move the bus whilst she remained on board. After a 25 minute stand off she decided to get off and was overwhelmed by the fact that every other passenger on the lower deck got off as well in sympathy.

What is it about some public transport staff (definitely not all though) that makes them behave in such a fashion?

sallyroberts · 2 months ago

Sadly, Stephen, your wife's "crime" like the hapless passenger at Holborn, was that of being middle-class.

stephenmarsh · 2 months ago

Sent from the Blackberry of:

Stephen Marsh
E: StephenM@consolidatedpr.com
M: 07887 730410

des1411 · 2 months ago

I blame Ian's ponytail for this incident. As it makes him look like a c**t then it must also be responsible for him acting like a c**t. It could also be that Ian is a virgin (barring occasional special trips to Cambodia) and in his late 30's and lives with his mum and dad. Thats why he shouts at old men who remind him of his dad.

However I do agree with Jamesmurphy that people need to respect Underground staff as it is a hard job which mainly involves standing around at ticket gates and walking blind people to platforms. The stadd more than deserve an above inflation payrise every year even in a recession and after having multiple walkouts.

James Murphy · 2 months ago

Des - you are typical of the profane and ignorant public who take TfL staff to breaking point, like poor Ian

mikewhile · 2 months ago

To breaking point? They're all rude b*stards. TfL need a lesson in manners. The only nice TfL staff are the ones that man the barriers at White City.

des1411 · 2 months ago

James you are typical of the guardian reading left wing loonie classes whose tolerance of the unions who defend the likes of platform Nazi's such as Ian have made the standard of services on the underground a joke.

You should be ashamed of yourself standing up for the likes of him.

Nick · 2 months ago

Hmmm. You mention Nazis, who were perhaps one of the most, if not the most, intolerant political movements of the last 100 years. Yet you show the same intolerance in your comments towards ponytails, left-of-centre political views, and Guardian readers, and cast ridiculous aspersions on his personal life. As someone whose views tend towards the liberal left, I also find the suggestion that I would support what Ian did as monumentally insulting.

Ian · 2 months ago

He's a pig-ignorant twat. Let's hope he gets well and truly fired!

Bounce · 2 months ago

James please can you regain some perspective as you are beginning to fall into whole you appear to be digging all by yourself. Them and us is it, like no one out here understands? The fact is the majority of TfL staff are paid and trained to negociate their way around situations like this not store them up to take out on random commuters / old men. I have my own horror stories from decades of travelling the tube but I have moved on... Can you?

Bounce · 2 months ago

James please can you regain some perspective as you are beginning to fall into whole you appear to be digging all by yourself. Them and us is it, like no one out here understands? The fact is the majority of TfL staff are paid and trained to negociate their way around situations like this not store them up to take out on random commuters / old men. I have my own horror stories from decades of travelling the tube but I have moved on... Can you?

Natalie Helen · 2 months ago

The sad part is that despite his appaling behavious towards a customer he's clearly been on a customer service course. However when you say "Ladies and Gentlemen this train is going nowhere until this jumped up GIT gets of the train" the ladies and gentlemen part is somewhat overshadowed by the part in which you shouted, swore at and berated a customer.

Disgusting behaviour from a staff member. Glad you blogged this, do you mind if I tweet and facebood a link?

des1411 · 2 months ago

I meant to type staff not stadd at the end of my last comment there. Sorry for doing an Ian.

enty · 2 months ago

What a disgusting bullying individual,sacked on the spot is the only fair way to treat this type.

Matt · 2 months ago

Here is the pony tailed idiots facebook profile - hope he gets the sack before his 5th November birthday - give us all something to celebrate. Perhaps he will throw himself under a train as he so ignorantly suggests to the kind old gentleman.

Matt · 2 months ago

http://emberapp.com/drcongo/images/facebook-ian...

James Murphy · 2 months ago

I am particularly enjoying all of the comments that refer to "bullying" and the abuse that they proceed to bestow on poor Ian.

Take a look at yourselves.........

Name · 2 months ago

My God - that is just appalling..................

JC · 2 months ago

Well done - you did the right thing. The behaviour of 'ponytail man' is disgraceful!

James Murphy · 2 months ago

Matt, we neede to book you in for some anger management matey.

Does your head go red when you get cross?

Tim · 2 months ago

There's 2 things I'm dying to know - Did the train get going with the old guy on it? And why is that weird TFL bloke wearing leather gloves?

Matt · 2 months ago

@ James Murphy - I do get angry when I see jumped up idiots like Ian attack defenceless old people - guess you are the same as him seeing as you are doing a lot of defending of him - makes you just a big an idiot as him!

mike k · 2 months ago

maybe when the platforms full IAN MIGHT FIND HIMSELF UNDER A TRAIN did anybody see who did it i dont think so

Dee Blackman · 2 months ago

Des1411 and JC...I have already commented on my disgust at the treatment of the elderly passenger by London Underground staff paid to deliver customer assistance, however I feel I have to address the 'ponytail' comments. My father also has a pony tail and works the platforms, but you will find that he is the most diligent member of staff at his station, he has been commended on many occasions for going 'beyond the call of duty' to assist passengers on their journeys. Please be considerate to those you tarnish with your comments. It would be unfair to let two incompetent London Underground staff members drag down the many who do work long hours for very little pay in the face of constant abuse, threats and inefficient management.

James Murphy · 2 months ago

@ Matt. "Defenceless old man"???? The bloke hair has gone gray he is hardly yoda. You should be a bloody journalist with your self-righteous indignation and rabble rousing.

Will you be leading the hate mob that throw him undera train or are you just happy to bully Ian from the safety of your office?

des1411 · 2 months ago

@James Murphy. Are you suggesting Matt should fight Ian?

James Murphy · 2 months ago

Why is everyone so angry on this blog?

Des there is no need for fighting - matt feels it is acceptable simply throw people under trains - especially when they are "idiots with ponytails"....

What a fuck-knuckle

Matt · 2 months ago

More than happy to meet up with you and Ian - name a time and place and I am sure some others will join me to teach you both a lesson in manners.

Dave R · 2 months ago

The repercussions of this are the perfect example of how mobile, video and social media can have an impact on everyday events.
Well done mate!

Bill · 2 months ago

I had a similar experiance when putting a girlfrind onto a train at Victoria, because train was about to leave the guy on duty was saying come on come on fucking hurry up.

After the train left I said to him look there is no need to swear at people. He then accused me of "having an argument with my girlfriend" and started calling over other staff to stop me leaving the exit.

I just said look there is no need to swear at people and I have a valid travel card so there is nothing you to do to stop me.

James Murphy · 2 months ago

Was she in a wheelchair?

taralala · 2 months ago

This video doesn't show the entire situation so some of these comments are unfounded. Yes the outcome obviously isn't good, but then you don't see what was said by the customer in the first hand - all you see is the gentleman saying somethign to the female SA and then the other guy jumping in angry. He could well of been calling her rude names or threatening her for ten minutes.

It's not difficult to see the yellow line on a crowded platform either, unless it is sobusy that someone is laying on it beneath your feet.

Also all these people calling him a bully and then posting his Facbook status. What is this, complain to TfL and post it to various news agencies AND start harassing him personally? IS this about righting a perceived wrong, getting a story in the media or is it just about mob rule?

Also, this elderly gentleman - how old is he? And if he were giving a tongue lashing to the staff before hand (we can't tell from this video) then he's old enough to get one back - though as i said fair enough not professional but were all human and snap at some point.

Wouldn't call him a nazi either, thats much worse than calling someone a git. As far as I know the Nazi's did a bit more than stop people getting on trains

Matt · 2 months ago

@ James Murphy - More than happy to meet up with you and Ian - name a time and place and I am sure some others will join me to teach you both a lesson in manners.

des1411 · 2 months ago

James are you and your boyfriend Ian going to take that off Matt?

James Murphy · 2 months ago

Point proven you frickin chieftain....

mike k · 2 months ago

may when the platform is full ian might just find himself under a train what a shame

James Murphy · 2 months ago

Mike,

Are you threatening to murder Ian?

des1411 · 2 months ago

I think chucking Ian under a train is going a bit too far especially as I travel home on the Central Line and my journey would be severely delayed should this happen.

Katie Rolt · 2 months ago

Note the TfL thug walks away when he realises that the gentleman isn't going to get off the train and that his does not have the authority to hold the train. Totally disgusting event, I hope he is given the boot, although I bet the RMT will defend him to the hilt.

enty · 2 months ago

Lets face it,this person called ian is out of his depth for the requirements of the job,probably better suited to being a door-person in a night club,then he can test his skills<cough> on the younger population.

James Murphy · 2 months ago

If you cough whilst writing an email are you supposed to document it?

steve · 2 months ago

I wonder which department in TFL James Murphy works for? :)

At the end of the day, every single employee on the underground has CHOSEN that as their carreer. If they cannot handle dealing with large numbers of customers without swearing at them, being rude, or abusive they should not choose this as their career. No one is forcing them into that particular job.

There, in my opinion is absolutely NO excuse for swearing at a paying customer. If we, as customers, so much as raise our tone to a member of public transport staff we get thrown off the tube / bus, so London Transport workers really should lead by example, and treat us as they themselves expect to be treated.

I personally hope that Ian M get sacked - and I will definitely pass this comment on to him next time I see him at holborn station.

James Murphy · 2 months ago

Who I work for Steve is none of your business. I am simply aware of how badly the staff get treated across our Transport network.

By the way your keyboard seems to capitalise occasional words - might be worth taking a look at it.

Bounce · 2 months ago

No James. You're a man for the drama who appears to relish his place within all as it allows him to play major league pious. No offence James but you're not helping anyone here including yourself.

bogg · 2 months ago

I don't think there's any excuse for swearing at non-paying customers either, or even non-paying non-customers, really

Andrew · 2 months ago

Haha - the little shit is probably sitting with RMT's press department right now giving 'his version of events'. Well done for capturing this and let's hope our friend with the fingerless gloves gets the boot. Without it resulting in a strike.

james · 2 months ago

Everyone complaining that people who have insulted Ian are just as bad as him, are idiots. What would you do if someone began harassing and insulting you? Just agree and say they're right? This old man represents all the Londoners who have been mistreated and this is why the language is getting so heated. Ian is not being insulted because of what he looks like, but for his appalling behaviour.

des1411 · 2 months ago

To be fair James Ian does look like a bit of a smug shit.

James Murphy · 2 months ago

Listen to yourself - "He represents all the Londoners...." - he is a bloke going about his day yo day job who has obviously been pushing a few peoples buttons.

Please do not call me an idiot or I may be forced to get Matt to throw you under a train

james · 2 months ago

and when has it ever been a criminal offense to not stand behind the yellow line? especially an offense worthy of abuse from tfl staff?

madeline123123 · 2 months ago

The poster of this blog is an attention seeker:
Ian is obviously an angry knobhead (note fingerless leather gloves and ponytail).
But then again, just because the old man is old does not mean he cannot be a total pain in the arse. Exaggerating a non event and banging on about it.
Wow, somebody swearing at someone in London, what a shock; must film it, post a blog and
feel like its a big deal.

pffffft

bogg · 2 months ago

You're right. We should just tolerate this behaviour from everybody. It's pretty normal and I like living in a society where nobody should feel accountable for their actions.

sdiggady · 2 months ago

Get your revenge on the angry tube man http://bit.ly/2OOlL3 haha, flash game! This is hilarious!

IK · 2 months ago

what a knob...! Ian, you have had your 15 minutes of fame. Enjoy!

well done for posting JM, and well done for filming.

James Murphy · 2 months ago

And this one www.kill-ian-now-the-ponytail-wearing-bastard.c...

steve · 2 months ago

Oh, and James Murphy - its obvious you love Ian so much you just want to suck his cock, I really think you should just go down holborn tube station and tell him that.

James Murphy · 2 months ago

"You just want to suck his cock"...that made spit my coffee out......

May I suggest you log off and get back to watching cbeebees, you may find it be more your level

Andrew · 2 months ago

I'm hoping he accepts me as a Facebook friend. http://www.facebook.com/NightInc?v=wall

shp · 2 months ago

this is beyond embarrassing. this level of aggression is completely unnecessary & uncalled for. he is not dealing with a bunch of hoodlems. though, i suspect, had he been, he would properly not have been quite so cocky. people like this should NOT work in the service industry.

des1411 · 2 months ago

@Steve. Steve there is no place on here or any other forum for homophobic abuse like that. I think you should take back what you said.

James Murphy · 2 months ago

This is between Steve and I

steve · 2 months ago

perhaps you two should spoon?

James Murphy · 2 months ago

Fork off

des1411 · 2 months ago

Steve you are being pathetic. I did not think there could be a bigger shit on here than James but well done to you. You are a knob-jockey.

steve · 2 months ago

des1411 my comment was not homophobic - i genuinely think that would be a valid course of action for someone who is obviously as besotted with Ian as James is.

alan · 2 months ago

Oh come off it. The media is obviously having a slow day. The old man got stuck in the door (why?), he stood past the yellow line which is dangerous not only to him but also other passengers and refused to move. Everyone has an "off day" at work and I think it's sad that people are calling for him to be fired. What has he done that's so wrong? He swore at a member of the public - big deal - get over it.

Ibster · 2 months ago

Exactly. Call for him to be "retrained" or deployed to another area. I don't think "Jonathan" is a hero for leaking this to the press and turning some working guy into a figure of hate. Jonathan McDonald the senior management consultant can bang on all he likes about disrespect and TfL employees but I bet that he's lived all his life with privileges he barely acknowledges. He wouldn't last ten minutes doing Ian's job.

James Murphy · 2 months ago

I love you Alan - can I suck your cock?

Coddy · 2 months ago

Where does it say he got stuck because he was on the wrong side of the yellow line? Do concentrate.

raymond66 · 2 months ago

Ok if it happens rarely, but this one has an "off day" at work EVERY DAY.

Bounce · 2 months ago

The guys job description states acceptable behaviour when dealing with members of the general public. Past the hit squad he does indeed appear to have breached some pretty crucial points. These points he'll no doubt need to touch on during his employers investigation into the event.

kembodee · 2 months ago

This represents everything Northerners say about the South, did no one have the bottle to speak politely to the guard and point out how rude he was being?

Up North I'm sure some of the other passengers would have backed up the old geezer!!

James Murphy · 2 months ago

Do you have trains up there?

saskiathestylefairy · 2 months ago

I was alerted to your blog from Sky News - I am glad this has made the press. Well Done for taking action on it and making sure you got this footage. I feel terrible for the man who was so publicly vilified. I only wish I had got to see the reactions of the tube staff faces when they realised their royal cock up! Ashamed - they should be!

Susan Maxwell · 2 months ago

Regardless of what the old man has done, if a train officer is asking you to step away from the platform, or forbidding you to board a train, why is the old man getting so much respect for disregarding him?

Name · 2 months ago

"why is the old man getting so much respect for disregarding him?"

Just speculating, but I'd probably feel very intimidated and threatened if I were being treated in that way. The result? I'd try to get away as quickly as possible (whether right or wrong), not hang around with the guy who was insulting me!

kembodee · 2 months ago

James Murphy= Troll !

F · 2 months ago

Wow that is not a nice incident for anyone to witness. I wonder if the lady in uniform is his manager? I wonder why she didn't stop him from shouting? Surely if he has that much anxiety he ought to be off work with it. According to his FB page this has got on TV- I wonder why he hasn't made his FB page invisible yet? Mine is. In the UK, so far as I'm aware (via CIPD) to be sacked on the spot one has to commit a more heinous crime than shouting/rudeness in public service industries it can be extremely hard dealing with the public, particularly crowds. Obviously he did not deal with it in the right way, though! Looks to me like he needs a chance to apologise to the guy in question, some time off and some more training. I wonder if he will lose his job, if there is any need for him to lose his job, and what implications this has in terms of blogosphere power etc.

spooner · 2 months ago

Well done Jonathan... Citizen Journalism strikes again!

Name · 2 months ago

What a cock. I expect the rest of his mates will be out on strike if he gets the sack though.

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

YES we will because it would be unfair dissmissal, how can you justify sacking him? he did insult the man mildly but not aggressively and to the extent that he deserves the sack get a grip on life, this is it!

Angela · 2 months ago

Thanks for sharing the video, Jonathan.

I'm beginning to feel sorry for Ian. He's now on London Tonight.

THETRUTHHURTSA · 2 months ago

IF YOU DONT LIKE LONDON UNDERGROUND THEN DONT USE IT 90% OF YOU WOULD LOVE TO WORK FOR L U AND WE HAVE TO PUT UP WITH A LOT OF ABUSIVE CUSTOMERS WHEN MOST OF THE PROBLEMS ARE OUT OF STATION STAFF CONTROL.ALSO YOU WOULD ALL LIKE A UNION LIKE THE RMT AS MOST OF YOU GET WALKED OVER BY YOUR COMPANIES

tiggeriffic · 2 months ago

Wow. Another TFL employee with anger management issues clearly!
Many people work in shitty underpaid jobs that involve taking crap from members of the public Thetruthhurtsa. The difference is how you deal with it. If you cant handle it with professionalism and maturity then you shouldn't be employed in that role. Simple really.
So in response to your comment: IF YOU CANT HANDLE PEOPLE GIVING YOU CRAP AS PART OF YOUR JOB THEN QUIT!

Kenny · 2 months ago

If you don't like London underground then don't use it? What a ridiculous comment, most people have no choice you muppet.

Time for you to realize the customers pay your wages, not bob crow, and without us you'd be working in mcdonalds. Any public facing employee who views customers as a nuisance is in the wrong job.

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

WRONG, i would have finished uni, most of us lul staff are quite intelligent so please dont stereotype. second without us you would walk to work or take 3 buses. You need us far more than we need you.
I agree however with your last sentence, although if the man had broken a byelaw the staff are well within their legal rights to eject him and the police would back them up

PabloCreep · 2 months ago

Does taking abuse from one customer excuse your lack of professionalism towards another? No.

geraldineriches · 2 months ago

I am a 64 yr old lady now living in France - cheaper house!! When staying with my son a few months ago in London I went to Lancaster Gate tube on my way to meet him at Holborn. I hadn't had time to get sterling but thought I could use my French credit card to pay - only to find it did not work in the UK... the Ticket chap then called Holborn to explain my situation and showed me through the barrier. By the time I arrived at Holborn the female guard knew all about my problem and let me through to meet my son. They are not ALL bad...

rayfrensham · 2 months ago

Hope you don't mind but I posted up a link on my own blog (http://rayfrenshamworld.blogspot.com) under my "Broken Britain" strand, and on my facebook page. It's already started to receive astonished responses. I hope my friends abroad see this and realise the kind if welcome they can receive in glorious London these days.

Sadly, this kind of behaviour is somewhat typical of the entire TfL culture - the way they bully the "customer", indiscriminately put up the fares, and throw their weight around, feeling immune. Something is rotten to the core about this organisation.

Keep it up, dear chap. Civility costs nothing.
[[Oh yes, and, according to The Spectator: if you want to tackle the holes in the transport budget, try addressing the 126 TfL employees earning six-figure salaries....yes, that IS 126 emplyees.....]].

nariek · 2 months ago

What are you talking about? It hasn't received any responses. Come on man, get your facts straight.

The truth costs nothing.

rayfrensham · 2 months ago

The responses on my facebook posting of it!
 
Ray

nariek · 2 months ago

Is it true that he's committed suicide? That's awful.

josh11111 · 2 months ago

Absolutely shocking behaviour. I hope you have all seen this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbpk9dm8dLo, documenting yet MORE appauling behaviour from TFL and general rail staff, at Upminster.

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

WHAT appuling behaviour? the men were ejected form the train for breaking the conditions of carriadge and byelaws, no one swore, or was rude. GET a life and start living it for christ sake

kablo · 2 months ago

This is the kind of service to be expected, dont think it will get any better? Just look at the union leader, it tells it all

durell24 · 2 months ago

As an ex employee of London Underground i think it is a disgrace that the the news and the general public are so outraged about the way Ian reacted to the passenger in question as in my time on the Underground i and other staff had to endure the daily abuse from passengers both verbal and physical. As for the poor man with his arm trapped in the door, well that was common place for business men to either put their arm or their briefcase between the doors so that they did not miss the train, which in turn would delay the service to no end. In my time i found the businessmen to be the rudest of all the customers that i encountered and i feel for Ian as he will be made a scapegoat.

What about sticking up for the common man for once,
Eddie.

JuliaM · 2 months ago

Are you familiar with the 'two wrongs don't make a right' saying?

It's quite clear from the story that the elderly gentlemen didn't deliberately get his arm caught, nor did we see him offer any 'abuse' to the two uniformed pig-ignorant TfL staff. Though they thoroughly deserved some.

'Sticking up for the common man'? We are. We are sticking up for an elderly gentlemen abused by a mindless yob who thinks a florescent jacket makes him God.

Hopefully, he's soon to learn a new phrase. Not so much 'Mind the doors!' as 'Big Issue, mate?'...

Ian · 2 months ago

This guy was getting off a train which was going out of service though. What possible motivation would he have to get trapped in the door?

durell24 · 2 months ago

That does not excuse the hundreds of other pig ignorant young,elderly and
middle aged men in suits i myself witnessed barraging myself and other staff
with insults because there is a delay in service often caused by a man or
woman stopping the doors with either their arm or briefcase because they
have a "deadline: to meet.I worked at Brixton station when i was on the
underground and the only insults i received were from your so called
innocent man.i bet the elderly man gave Ian a heap of abuse but i reckon you
"forgot" yo film that part.

Ian · 2 months ago

I'm sure there are abusive passengers out there and I know from personal experience there are other abusive tube workers as well, but we aren't talking about them, we're talking about this one.

You were suggesting that this man deserved the abuse he got from because he probably deliberately got stuck in the door, well that doesn't stack up as he was getting off a faulty train.

Nogginthenomad · 2 months ago

He would have been quite within his rights to react to verbal abuse, had the passenger in question have given it. But what seems apparent is that the individual concerned was pretty meek. Of course, we haven't seen the whole exchange, so judgment can't be made. However, as a south west London postie, I have taken some verbal 'hits' recently due to the current industrial disputes, and on several occasions have had to bite my lip and acquiesce to the frustration of the 'punters'. There is no excuse for swearing at the customers. It's not their fault the government is determined to ruin everything for them.

durell24 · 2 months ago

No offence but being a postie is hardly as stressful as being responsible
for hundreds of lives like Ian is on a daily basis. he has one bad day and
you guy's hang him for it.When i was on the underground i endured heaps of
abuse from so caled harmless old men in suits but as they had a gold card
supplied by their company they thought they could dictate the underground.

Nogginthenomad · 2 months ago

Believe me, durell24, being a postie is pretty tough at the moment. Don't know if you noticed, but the government is intent on destroying the Royal Mail. I get verbals every day from the people I deliver to. I don't swear at them, I just try to quietly explain that the service they rely on is being destroyed by politicians.

blogwatcher · 2 months ago

How dare you show part of an incident giving only a small part of the story, people like you make me sick, making judgments and speaking as if you are the authority on all things maybe that old guy was a complete pain who was delaying everybodies journey, your blog is not worth the time

lindarozee · 2 months ago

I would hazerd a guess "blogwatcher" that you are one of the foul mouthed "people" that inhabit our world, adding nothing of value to life, and taking all with a F***you at the end of it.

blogwatcher · 2 months ago

It seems to me that you have made a judgment about me ,without knowing me
and infact are wrong, instead of running with the baying pack try to have a
balanced and independent view do not think like a sun reader, this will
hold you in good stead through your life, swearing no i dont, provoking
people yes you do.

areia · 2 months ago

@blogwatcher,

yes, and that means anyone who is
a) old
b) not very mobile with a stick
c) old
d) being civilised ie NOT f-ing and blinding anyone

deserves to be verbally abused?

Your presence on the net is a waste of space.

jamesmillson · 2 months ago

Woah Chill out Blogwatcher, Sorry i mean Ian from the video.....

Dave · 2 months ago

Grass..............

Dave · 2 months ago

Hilariously.....Jonathan was there.....so I'm pretty sure he's not hyping something up. Regardless as to what the elderly chap said- this fella should not have let rip as he did.

Mr. Guest · 2 months ago

Well done for sticking up for a stranger.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/83104...

RMT: You don't have to be rude to get your point across, its just less effort isn't it....

bill54544 · 2 months ago

What is this term "suited and booted"? Sounds like something out of a George Bernard Shaw novel. Are the "suited and booted" the posh types? Them what thinks they're special?

sion1 · 2 months ago

User name "boris Johnson" - How can you sit there and defend this crap!! Now I think everyone who has commented on this would agree that there are worse things going on in the world (like wars) but this blog isn’t about that! I have to say if anyone is threatening Ians life that is out of order and really sad but what Jonathan is pointing out is that we are getting F-ed over by the F-ing system!!! There ya have these selfish, greedy, dirty people at the top believing they can do this kinda shit, like raise prices on travel, and we should just bend over and take it!!! Ian was very out of order and he should get the sack for it! But I don’t think this is about Ian….Its about all of us taking abuse like this for a bloody service we F-ing pay for!!! Would you accept it if someone served you a pint and said F**k you? No you wouldn’t. There is NO way the price of travel can go up with service like this!!!

Ken_Livingstone · 2 months ago

"Boris" - It wasn't just a snapped aside though was it - pushing his face into a weak elderly man's and swearing/screaming in response to no justified provocation. Good on Jonathan for publicising the incident - too much of this bullshit is ignored every day.

It's just bullying.

Jeff · 2 months ago

Is this 'elderly' man now 'weak' too? Are you making this up as you go along?

Ken_Livingstone · 2 months ago

whatever "jeff" - the white-haired guy is not raising his voice, walking away when "jumped up little guy" Ian follows him, gets abusive and starts screaming. Does that look made up?

Jeff · 2 months ago

Your OUTRAGE(tm) would be more credible if you stuck to the facts.

Ken_Livingstone · 2 months ago

Your pedantry would be less irritating if you stopped splitting hairs

Jeff · 2 months ago

It's not "splitting hairs" to challenge fabricators. The behaviour of the CSA was not acceptable and his employers will deal with that. Inventing extra reasons for outrage lessens the impact of what he actually did. You may as well make up something interesting if you are going to lie: Say he kicked the 'weak, elderly,, disabled' man. That would sound better.

blogwatcher · 2 months ago

how do you know he is weak, and elderly he might disagree with that as well, you are very patronising

Jeff · 2 months ago

It's clear he's weak, isn't it? You see the back of his head, and you can't hear him talk because he's facing the other way.

No, really. He's weak as a kitten.

Ken_Livingstone · 2 months ago

why does he change his mind about stopping the train? maybe because his colleagues know that he is a jumped-up bully with possible mental issues and won't listen to him?

Jeff · 2 months ago

He can stop the train without much effort. He's in charge of the platform.

Maybe he wants the jumped-up little wea... sorry, elderly man out of his sight for something that happened before the video evidence was filmed.

Angela · 2 months ago

What happened before the filming is irrelevant. The worker should NOT have reacted that way. If he can't keep his anger under control, then he should get a job that does not involve dealing with people.

Ken_Livingstone · 2 months ago

He couldn't have stopped the train as that is the responsibility of the train operator (see Dagenhammax's post above). What did you say about getting the facts right...?

Jeff · 2 months ago

I said that it's important to stick to facts and not make things up.

I stand corrected on the 'being able to stop a train', as CSAs aren't provided with red lamps to show to the driver to stop the train. And unlike you, I've admitted I was wrong.

However, don't you think there's a difference between being factually incorrect and making things up to make an actor in the story seem more pitiful?

raymond66 · 2 months ago

That is well spotted, and very true.

But the problem lies in the fact that there is rarely a punishment, and when there is one, there is a strike, no matter how wrong the member of staff was. That may incite managers not to want to take action, to avoid worse…
If such behaviour would systematically (=part of a standard and working process) be punished, then they would not, or rarely, behave like this.

I also have been insulted by him. It wasn’t pleasant, to say the least.

Another case: Last year, on 15 DEC 2008, on a W7 bus I was treated very badly. I complained to TFL, sent a letter, but never got any answer. So, the management doesn’t seem to care… Unfortunately, it was not filmed, because my story appears hard to believe, just for asking why the bus was 7 minutes late.
That to say that bad treatment is common place, these days.

danwoodhouse · 2 months ago

so on august 26 I was assulted on Elm Park station - by a station assistant

on august 28, 3 blokes had abuse at Upminster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbpk9dm8dLo&feat...

and now this incident at Holborn

i think that anyone working for the underground who cannot handle the pressure should resign now and do us Londoners a huge favour

then that might leave room for a decent person to work on the underground.....LIKE ME

Monsoon Malabar · 2 months ago

Thanks for filming this. Glad to see it's the third most read story on the BBC website!

TheTruth · 2 months ago

"admittedly the wrong side of the yellow line (which was hard to see as there were hundreds of stranded people on the platform)." - Enough Said

stevelondoner · 2 months ago

LUL staff take note: Standing behind "the yellow line" is a suggested thing to do. It's not a law or by-law that people have to stand behind it. Obviously, the nearer the platform edge you get, the more dangerous it becomes but until these yellow lines were introduced people used to stand right at the edge of the platform and there were (thankfully) few incidents as a result. However, some London Underground staff seem to think that the yellow line gives them the excuse to bark at passengers who venture over it and throw around their (imagined) authority. Of course, staff should have the interests of passenger safety in mind but there are ways of doing things and there are ways of not doing things.

an RMT member · 2 months ago

I think you'll find that its covered in the bye-laws.

London Regional Transport Railways Byelaws
12. Safety instructions
The Operator may issue to any person reasonable instructions relating to safety on any part of the railway by means of a notice on or near that part of the railway. No person, without good cause, shall disobey such notice.
An authorised person may, in an emergency or in other circumstances in which he believes he should act in the interest of safety, issue instructions to any person on any part of the railway. No person, without good cause, shall disobey such instruction.

magicalmutation · 2 months ago

but... i would just like to point out the obvious...

after reading all the bits and bobs of who is right and who is wrong
a) no one else on the platform even helped
b) does not matter if the old guy was an unmitigated bastard. the guard has a professional obligation not to behave like he did.

thats the short and drawn of it, and having been to london far too many times of recent. none of this surprises me in the slightest.

I dont think i have ever yet been to our fair capital and not had someone's impatient arrogant nature thrust on me . just hope that people who visit our country do not judge us all by the same standard

jane_barnes · 2 months ago

I am gobsmacked that some people are sticking up for the tube guy. No, we don't know what happened beforehand but the suited guy clearly did not want to get invovled in any row, was not behaving agressively and did blimmin well not to get riled and have a go back.

But I was impressed that Boris Johnson (the real one) tweeted on it so quickly http://twitter.com/mayoroflondon

Jonathan is right to post this video ... as punters we do have the power to make things change / get things done - Boris Johnson would never have known about this if he hadn't. The guy who got may or may not have made a formal complaint and then it would have been his word against the tube guys so nothing would've happened and tube guy would've got away with it. Instead tube guy was suspended - and serves him right.

stevelondoner · 2 months ago

"An RMT man" needs to get his facts right, i.e. the passenger in question (I'm not gonna refer to him as an "old man" - d'oh!) was getting off the train because it was being taken out-of-service. "An RMT man" seems to think he was getting on the train at the last moment, as the doors were closing. And so what if he had been? The tube carries, what, 2 million people daily? That means hundreds of thousands of passengers each day are jumping on at the last mo. It's par for the course. It's what we sometimes do, and if "an RMT man" can't appreciate that, he's obviously in the wrong job. It seems probable that the passenger got his arm caught in the door because the "porter button" (a device used to close the doors on an individual carriage) was pressed by a member of staff (Ian?) a bit prematurely, i.e. before everyone had left the car. Someone mentions that the doors re-opened after about 30 seconds, thus freeing the passenger. This delays suggests that the Train Operator/Driver had to open the doors (because Porter Buttons only close doors, they can't open them). So, it's quite possible that this whole incident was sparked by a member of LUL's staff, perhaps Ian, being too keen to close the doors, resulting in a passenger getting his arm caught. Then, when he complained (perhaps about the delay in freeing his arm?), he gets a load of childish and threatening verbal from Ian - who, frankly, hasn't got a leg to stand on. His position is untenable. Even if a Discipinary Board doesn't sack him, he obviously cannot remain at Holborn. I know Jonathan MacDonald only filmed things after events had kicked-off but let's not forget that the lead-up to all this will have been captured on the station's CCTV system. Ian is lucky to have a job in this day and age. He's lucky to be paid rather more than many people who work in London. He'll be even luckier if LUL/LRT/TfL don't hang him out to dry - which, obviously, they should.

Pete · 2 months ago

This just highlights what a sad old city London has become. Snarling rude people who seem to go out of their way to be unpleasant. I started work in central London 30 odd years ago and it was a much more civilised and believe it or not courteous place back then.

dagenhammax · 2 months ago

I worked as a Station Assistant (now Customer Service Assistant) for 5 years before becoming a Train Operator (no longer just driver as we do the guard’s job as well). Apart from the money one reason I didn’t want to carry on working on stations was because I felt that a lot of my colleagues were insufficiently trained and the other was the complete self centred nature of the passengers I had to deal with.

LUL has an incredibly high turn over of staff at that level, not many people stay CSAs for long as they either get promoted or simply quit because they are unprepared for the stress of being the target of so much abuse and the shift work where one week you can be starting at 5am and the next going home after 1am.

I don’t know the staff member involved and you don’t know what his day had been like up till then, so maybe there are mitigating circumstances but your tiny piece of footage isn’t a shining advert for LUL.

As for him stopping the train, no Ken and Jeff he couldn’t, he’s there to assist the train op “tipping out” the passengers of defective train and then managing the platform to prevent overcrowding. The train itself is the responsibility of the Train Op, who would probably have considered the other hundreds of passengers on board and ignored him.

Quite frankly when people complain about the Tube I just laugh as anyone who hasn’t worked there really has no idea of what the staff have to put up with every day. Just glad I escaped all that and spend my days safely tucked away from the punters in the cab.

Vanish Patel · 2 months ago

this seems to be a big problem. im in australia at the moment but once i come back i know i will have to pay much more for my month train ticket than i would have a couple of years ago.

main reason i think, the olympics and the fact that the budgets are being missed everytime. consumers wont mind price rises as much as tax rises. in this case, it should be equivalent to a tax but called inflation.

dagenhammax · 2 months ago

stevelondoner, if he was boarding the train while the doors were closing then he was breaching the Conditions of Carriage which he accepted when he bought his ticket. You should be able to get these along with a copy of the Railway Bylaws at any ticket office, check the section under trains equipped with automatic doors and lo and behold it clearly states that it is an offence to board a train once the doors have started to close.

Okay its not enforced and thousands do it everyday but it’s the law so anyone caught getting on or off a train once those doors start closing have only themselves to blame. On reopening the doors, yeah probably was the Train Op who wouldn't be on the station radio channel, he'd be listening to the Line Controller.

stevelondoner · 2 months ago

Thanks for your input, "dagenhammax". I have one correction and one comment: (1) It's not "the law" (i.e. an act passed by Parliament), it's a by-law (i.e. made by London Underground as a Stautory Body). (2) Regardless, it does not excuse ian's behaviour.

JuliaM · 2 months ago

"...it’s the law so anyone caught getting on or off a train once those doors start closing have only themselves to blame."

So the elderly, the slow, the confused deserve to be treated like that? The train he got caught in, according to the bloghost, was moving off, going out of service. Perhaps he should have stayed on it, rather than try to get off and been just that little too slow?

'Accident', dagenhammax. Do you understand the word?

Spiglord · 2 months ago

Greeting from a expat brit now living in New Zealand. As proud of being an Englishman as I am, it's this sort of small-minded & threat-laden mentality that has seeped into English culture that will ensure I never return to the UK.... :-(

I hope 'Ian' get what he deserves.....

SteveG

dagenhammax · 2 months ago

Found them online, give them a read and be amazed what you can and can't do on the railways

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/termsandconditions/5004.aspx

Patrick Mooney · 2 months ago

Ian's ambition is to be a driver or work on the track - if this is he.

http://emberapp.com/drcongo/images/facebook-ian...

Bobby · 2 months ago

Well done for posting this. The guy is rude and should lose his job. You need rewards and punishment. Otherwise, what is the point?
He was too offensive calling people as git. He stepped over the line, pardon the pun.

whowantstoknow · 2 months ago

and you really think his punishment should be to have his face posted all over the internet like this?
You guys call him a bully but what are you? Sure he should lose his job but come on not like this.

john · 2 months ago

surely tube staff would ask the passengers to move back behind the yellow line using public address system and a loud voice and firm tones while still being polite emphasizing certain words eg "passengers move BACK BEHIND the yellow line PLEASE " maybe repeating this. If the platform is overcrowded would pasdsengers not be stopped from going down from the ticket hall. When i have visited london and used the tube i have always encountered courteous professional staff. If i had never used it seeing this would discourage me from doing so. Even if the passenger was abusive he should have been dealt with firmly but calmly and if need be taken to the police or the police called down to platform. As this employee was, i assume, in charge of the platform and therefore the safety of the travelling public his behaviour just makes a dangerous situation worse . no employee should have to take abuse from the public but the public should not have to witness this sort of behaviour from anyone be it fellow passengers or staff

Ryan · 2 months ago

Excellent. Organizations like the LU need to catch up and realize that when everyone is carrying a mobile phone that can take video at any time, abuse of customers like this will generate plenty of embarrassment. I'm sure that if this customer had gone "upstairs" to talk to the transport police a very onesided story would have been told, making this employee sound like an innocent angel rather than the aggressive thug he is in reality.

Patrick Mooney · 2 months ago

The relevent byelaw

6. Unacceptable behaviour

1. No person shall use any threatening, abusive, obscene or offensive language.
2. No person shall behave in a disorderly, indecent or offensive manner.

The byelaws mean what they say, i.e. LU personnel are encompassed by the phrase "any person".

British Transport Police will, no doubt, wish to interview Ian, to establish if there is sufficent evidence to charge him. In my opinion, the evidence against him is overwhelming.

Richard, Northern Ireland · 2 months ago

London is a great city. What an image to send out to the world

markdredge · 2 months ago

What a totally unacceptable act. Good on you for posting this. Regardless of Ian's age, the pony-tailed tube muppet is completely out of order. No one can speak to anyone like that. Regardless of his situation, I hope he faces some kind of punishment for this.

Karen · 2 months ago

Thank you so much for standing up to this behaviour and being heard.... thank you for giving a man a voice. and my goodness i hope Ian has a crisp P45 on his desk on monday morning... failiong that a job well away form the general public.

Karen

whowantstoknow · 2 months ago

You call that standing up up??? Come on standing up is saying something when it happened not bullying someone in this manner. Losing his job is one thing, bullying all over the internet is another.

tomorwell · 2 months ago

he bullied that bloke on a busy platform. a video showing objectively what happened is hardly bullying. just because so many people are disgusted by it. is it bullying when the courts are packed to witness a murderer get sentenced? face it man, ian's a bully.

whowantstoknow · 2 months ago

He has not murdered any one for god sake. the punishment is far to big for the crime. plus i knoa that Jmac did it in his own interest not for the good of the public. And that make me sick. You all are big men but noone move no one did anything at the time.

corporaldog · 2 months ago

Alright folks, I am a serving railway guard on the intercity trains, with over ten years service. Just to let everyone know that guards ride on the train, and the tube itself is actually guardless and the staff involved would be platform staff. Anyway I shall add my views to what I have read, and I am in two minds about what I have read...

If what has been reported is accurate, then it is completely disgusting, and I am saddened by the attitude this employee shows to the passengers HE WORKS FOR. I would agree with the posters suggesting he should be removed from his position hastily if this is the case, and strongly support Mr McDonald for bringing this to public attention. Despite it being politically correct not to say so, it is a fact that there are colleagues I work with who do have contempt for the passengers who travel on their trains, and not only is this completely unacceptable, it makes the job a lot harder for the rest of us who try our best to look after you lot who pay our wages.

However it is worth pointing out that we do not have the full side of the story from the video. We do not know what has been said to the member of staff. 99.9% of the travelling public are brilliant and do not deserve the rip off fares, poor service and the presumption of guilt they get from public transport, but there is a minority who are complete feral scum. Colleagues I have worked with, some who I count as friends have suffered everything from death threats, to being glassed, sexually assaulted, had dogs set on them, had youths 'wait for them' after work, had bricks thrown through the windscreen of the locomotive, even shot at, and in the worst case kicked unconscious and ended up on life support. It is no wonder that intemperate language and aggression can be witnessed amongst staff when dealing with people who have no respect and know only of their 'rights'. I trust of course that in this incident this isn't the case and that the truth has been spoken, but everyone should be aware of what railway workers really do face.

As for the comment about staff joking about chucking someone on the track, whereas I can see this being a bit of silly messroom banter when it comes to some of the really violent scum we face, I think it is totally out of order when it comes to the more "challenging" passengers, and further more totally unacceptable to make these jokes in public. As someone who has actually witnessed bodies splattered around the tracks, I can assure you it is no laughing matter.

Mr MacDonald, if all is as you say, I salute you for what you have done, this sort of action makes my job easier by removing the bad eggs, but folks remember some of us railway staff are decent people trying to make a living doing a difficult and sometimes dangerous job. I do not know how the tube is actually run, but certainly on my company, the staff do have the benefit of discretion, and anyone who doesn't use it should maybe consider alternative employment...

~Paul

JuliaM · 2 months ago

"Mr MacDonald, if all is as you say, I salute you for what you have done, this sort of action makes my job easier by removing the bad eggs, but folks remember some of us railway staff are decent people trying to make a living doing a difficult and sometimes dangerous job."

At last, a sensible comment from railway staff. You are correct, Paul, those who use the Tube regularly, like me, know that the staff are not all foul-mouthed little oiks with Napoleon complexes.

Unfortunately, some of those who don't will now be likely to judge them by this incident, and by the comments of those who seem hell-bent on blaming the bloghost, the commenters here, the victim, ANYONE other than the sole person responsible for this - Ian himself.

corporaldog · 2 months ago

Thanks for your supportive comment. Unfortunately there are a minority of staff who forget the reason they are employed, and 'undo-ing' their 'work', as the likes of myself often have to do can be an absolute nightmare. Having looked at the video a few times, it is clear from the body language of the old boy that he is not out to cause trouble to railway staff.

Ultimately in this case even if he made a dangerous or stupid mistake there is no justification for the member of staff to speak to him in that way. I could understand the attitude taken if the platform staff was given personal abuse or threatened, but this does not appear to have happened at all.

As for the posts by staff going on about strikes or whatnot, I am a fully paid up union man, but the purpose of the union should be to defend the rights of the honest working employee, not to defend unacceptable behaviour, and it would make a mockery of our right to strike. As I have said before the people who show no respect for the travelling public make the job a lot harder for the rest of us, and ultimately should not be employed in the role...

jMac · 2 months ago

Hi Paul - thanks for your comment. Luckily, this isn't really down to my version of events. The video camera covers the main bits and either the LU CCTV or perhaps one or two of the 200 witnesses can attest the rest.

corporaldog · 2 months ago

Cheers! The other thing I find concerning is that assuming this old boy did accidentally get caught up in the doors, why did none of the staff check he was alright? As railway staff we have a duty to look after the passengers. What may be obvious to us regulars and staff regarding the train coming out of service, may not be obvious to everyone, and especially on crowded platforms of the nature the tube witnesses, it could be quite disorientating for some people.

There are odd times you have to 'bark' an order at people (usually if they are at immediate risk), but it should be done loudly, clearly and politely, and certainly not in this manner.

mathewbirkin · 2 months ago

To Ryan, Im pretty sure that "LU", is quite up there on the camera front, concidering they themselves have more than 30 of them on some platforms, maybe this christmas season they should blog some of their own footage, footage of white collars like yourself pissing in the train compartments or crapping on the platforms, maybe they should name and shame everyone who is passed out on a train in a puddle of their own vomit. Why does everyone else have a right to privacy but not the front line workers of london?

whowantstoknow · 2 months ago

Thank you. This matter should be dealt with professionalism and Ian should be sanction fairly but at the end of the day he is a human been and he has the right to privacy.

JuliaM · 2 months ago

"...at the end of the day he is a human been and he has the right to privacy."

If he kept a civil tongue in his head he would have kept his privacy also. Well, that part of it he hadn't already given away over Facebook, that is...

whowantstoknow · 2 months ago

Hey hello he hasn't mudererd or rape anyone right.You are bullies

John · 2 months ago

Their seems to be some suprise at this attitude of the worker as if it is "out of the ordinary". Believe me,that sadly is the attitude you get from the MAJORITY of people in London no matter were you go in the city. The city is overcrowed, over populated, hardly anyone speaks English, and once again THE MAJORITY are rude as can be and speak like this all the time. If you put people under these conditions every day, they will eventually snap, just like Ian did. Ian is in the wrong but it is understanable and certainly not out of the ordinary in terms of the general way you will be treated in the capital..

Anon · 2 months ago

"Hardly anyone speaks English" yet "THE MAJORITY ... speak like this all the time." - That makes no sense.

Ralph Parfect · 2 months ago

I use Holborn station every day and am very familiar with the ponytailed guy - I suspect a lot of passengers are. He showed that he had anger management issues once before in an incident that I witnessed about a year ago. He was holding passengers at the ticket barriers to the station due to overcrowding on the platforms below, and was getting more and more agitated and antagonistic in the way that he answered passengers' questions about how long they would have to wait. Eventually a woman referred to him out loud as a 'silly little man', and at this he exploded and said 'Right, no one moves until this woman apologises'. He seemed pretty unlikely to calm down, and she refused to apologise, so I just thought 'that's it', and left and walked to the next station. It's interesting that in today's incident the guy used very similar language towards the elderly passenger, calling him a 'silly little girl'. As for the female coworker who shrugged at the suggestion that he would lose his job this time, my guess is that all the station staff at Holborn are aware of the guy's anger management problems, and probably try to support him, but equally feel exasperated. I expect they're all pretty surprised now, not so much by what has happened, as by the fact that the story has gone national.

benjaminajewitt · 2 months ago

I'd really like to take exception to MathewBirkin's stance on this.

While I really do utterly appreciate that this driver should not be pilloried for something purely because he's been crude about someone that's annoyed him at work, I think there's always a time and a place, and Mr Birkin's post stinks of the sort of "poor me" attitude that breeds and festers this type of attitude in the first place.

"Ian" is clearly just annoyed at a customer. That is defensible, so long as he vents spleen in the staff room, or over a cigarette later. Whether this was a creaky old man or a busty, cocksure young girl, the fact remains that as a customer facing worker, "Ian" should know full well that he is NOT Malcolm Tucker and both his attitude and his language are inappropriate.

To hamstring this discussion by degenerating to "white collar" vs "blue collar" (or working class vs middle class, as Mr Birkin transparently implies) is an absolute fallacy. This is not a class issue or an industrial one. It's an issue of personalities purely and simply.

I am one of these "high and mighty" prissy "white collar" workers that pays these people's wages, and I'll happily put up with their tedious "personalities" when they impotently berate people for leaning against doors, because it speeds me on my way to or from work.

Once the transport workers overstep the mark however, and become offensive to customers they are stepping outside the role they signed on for, which is ostensibly a "hold the dead man's switch here/read this script over a tannoy/exercise good judgement in starting and stopping a train".

In my hateful white collar (grr) job, if I started calling people "gits" and threatening their lives, either in a meeting or over the phone, I would be fired. Pure and simple.

Sadly I don't have Bob Crow and his cabal of cretins backing me up. Even so, I'm sure while its understandable for people to whinge about their customers in the privacy of the staff room, it damn well isn't "on the shop floor" and anyone who can't comprehend this should at the VERY least be retrained or stuck in a "behind the scenes" role.

chrispichris · 2 months ago

Although most staff are capable and professional,there are those that are not.On a return visit to London I was shown contempt and hostility & was accused of 'shouting' at a LRT employee (maybe I said help please) whilst navigating the barriers at Oxford Circus underground station with my family.I had a bag and hand trapped by the automatic barrier.Looking around I saw two LRT
staff members on duty."Help" I cried. The conversation they were having was so interesting that their duties were on hold.As I had my hand and bag trapped I asked for help to be extricated again."Why are you shouting at me ?" I heard back in response.I thought that it was obvious myself but..... It is hard to believe that LRT staff are actually paid to do a job which in effect they disregard ie help fare paying passengers.This attitude was apparent in Ian`s case when the elderly passenger was trapped by the doors and in turn abused.Is LRT`s training to never help and never apologise?
If it isn`t then the station managers should monitor and discipline their staff more consistently.

blogwatcher · 2 months ago

small point but who or what is lrt

Derek · 2 months ago

Absolute disgrace. I find the threat to bring him to the police quite disturbing. The police will naturally take the side of the employee of the Tube who without the presence of any other passengers (and in the absence of the video evidence of a good citizen) about could make any accusation whatsoever. Making death threats against passengers should be a sackable offence in my opinion. Making threats to bring somebody to the police over something that everybody can see does not warrant it should warrant severe disciplinary action. If anybody should be talking the police it is Ian.

F Chowdhury · 2 months ago

This is typical of London- overcrowding, rude behaviour, lack of respect. The LU is one of the worst public transport systems of any major European city, and horribly overpriced.

This 'Ian' character should be summarily dismissed from his job. It is mortifying that any public sector worker should swear at a member of the public like this. There is no excuse for this.

Well done Mr McDonald for filming this.

mathewbirkin · 2 months ago

why should he be denied the due process rights that everyone else is intitled to? Just because some one has grossly invaded his privacy by filming and posting this to make a quick buck?

David S · 2 months ago

I actually work for TFL at a station similar to Holborn. When I first started I was friendly, helpful and despite my personal feelings, always put on a positive face when dealing with the public. However, people are not aware of how much abuse we get on a daily basis. I have been spat on, assaulted and verbally abused on a regular basis since joining.
The comments I have read here are sadly typical of the general attitude we face every day. Every day I end up in a conversation with a customer which usually involves them telling me the service is shit, it's a disgrace, I'm a disgrace, I should be ashamed of myself.... And after listening to this I have to turn around and carry on with my job. On a particularly bad day with lots of delays it gets to a point where the abuse is constant and then tempers will rise. We are only human at the end of the day.
On the platforms we are responsible for the safety of everyone there. We don't ask people to stand behind the yellow lines for no reason. I have seen 2 people go under a train, and heard many more stories of horrific injuries. More often than not these aren't suicides but accidents. Our role goes beyond platform announcements.
How soon people forget 7/7 If anything like that was to happen again, it would be my responsibility to clear the platform of all passengers before leaving myself. Just remember, respect is a two way thing. Start showing staff more respect and then perhaps incidents like this will not happen. Of course, Ian shouldn't have reacted like he did, but it has been taken out of context. We can't see what happened before this, and your comment of the female employee laughing is unsubstantiated.

streaky · 2 months ago

End of the day it works the other way too, people have shitty days they face delays on the tube and issues with their job. Main difference is with threatening behaviour the victim serving the public is an aggrivating not a reason people are being asked to ignore it.

Name · 2 months ago

Think yourself lucky that you don't have to use the tubes you work for to get to and from work everyday. Get shoehorned into a roasting carriage with no room to move while enduring delays because 'a signal has failed' somewhere ahead. Then you'd understand why people get irritable!

However, you shouldn't have to accept any personal abuse either. My advice to you is get another job (try to find one that doesn't rely on the underground to get you there otherwise you'll replace one sense of frustration with another)

Billy · 2 months ago

Have any of you ever seen a person side swiped by a train?

First you have to provide fist aid then clear the platform the train will undoubtedly stop half up so you have to detrain everyone then send someone to meet the ambulance and start putting plans in place to walk the a 1000+ people from the packed trains stuck in the tunnel some of who may have mobility issues and all this because some idiot cant follow simple instructions like get behind the yellow line

Linni · 2 months ago

The point isn't that he asked him to get behind the line, its that a passenger had just been involved in an accident and instead of an apology he was told to "get behind the F@*KING line" (no need for swearing) then humiliated, insulted and slightly threatened. No body deserves to be treated that way and no body with such bad people skills deserves to be working with the public.

Anonymous Londoner · 2 months ago

Those TfL people in the video, ugly Ian and the fatso, are f****** w****** (I wouldn't have censored it if it didn't seem like certain comments are filtered on this blog). Verbally abusing an old innocent man, a passenger they're supposed to be serving, and not admitting that it's their fault!? What cowards! I'm shocked, but I'm not surprised at this incident...

This has happened to people I know, but on the bus. I've seen doors close on elderly passengers three times by drivers not paying attention (one picked up a lady friend and was chatting with her). My friend once told me (after telling her about the incident below whilst waiting at the bus station) that as she and her acquaintances were boarding a bus, the door suddenly closed on one of her acquaintance's sides - nobody had even boarded the bus yet as her aquaintance was the first to step in. The driver opened the door and told them to get out as if they were the ones who did something wrong. The driver left them at the bus stop with one in extreme pain (the doors are made from glass and metal).

A door had also closed on someone near and dear to me (of course I would've beaten up the driver if I was there) and almost closed on me (my bag got trapped instead as I was getting in AND out). We have to scream at the negligent drivers to open the door each time this happens!

Also whilst on the bus a few years ago, my sibling witnessed a woman who shouted for the bus to wait as she ran to catch it. The driver accidently closed the door on her arm - but instead of opening the door and apologising, HE DROVE OFF! She was screaming to open the door (she was still outside, trapped) and so did the passengers, but all he said was "I can't, I'm doing my job". He did eventually open the door after driving I think a few feet on a busy road. Then he continued driving without her as if nothing had happened as she stands with her arm bleeding whilst passerbys try to help her. Naturally, the passengers were shocked at what had just happened (it was the first thing my sibling told me when she got home). Some swore at the driver [as he deserves] whilst he continued going about his "job" (i.e. assault). Unfortunately, this happened during rush hour and nobody, including my sibling, managed to retain significant information and enough evidence to report to the police or complain to TfL HQ. This happened on the 207 from Ealing to Southall, by the way.

I always try to retain as much information and evidence as I can when witnessing something like this. I'm glad you did, Mr. MacDonald. Not only did you report this, you also put in the media in front of the entire city! Well done! However, despite all of our efforts, I'm quite sure we'll continue to see many more abuses from staff of OUR public transport services.

SHAME ON THESE MORONS!!!

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

OLD no he was middle aged
INNOCENT maybe though evidence is only partial and chances are ppl like you with one or two bad incidents would be joining the lynch mob with torches and all regardless.
YOU are being just as abusive by calling them what you did, infact you are worse as you are swearing and being much more offensive.
YOUR public transport service. ok last time i checked it was owned by LUL. I suppose sainsburys is OUR supermarket and HSBC is OUR bank, just think about what your saying.
IM quite sure i will be abused many many more times before i retire by customers of MY employer.

smudgeweb · 2 months ago

Regardless of whether the old man was not following instructions / endangering himself or others / being abusive prior to Jonathan getting the video, a professional should have dealt with this in a professional manner. Presumably there is training on how to deal with this type situation - and I doubt it involves a volley of offensive abuse.

In any other customer facing organisation this behavior, even without clear video evidence, would be met with immediate dismissal for gross misconduct.

Anonymous Londoner · 2 months ago

Those TfL idiots are a waste of money, space, food and oxygen! Weren't they ever trained to handle passengers' complaints in professional, dignified manner?? I hope they never got the audacity to strike for a higher salary... or maybe that's a good thing if they're not working as it mean they won't be mistreating passengers...? :-\

grahamstaunton · 2 months ago

Good on them for striking! I hope they fuck up your day bitch!

Anonymous · 2 months ago

You too, wanker.

hte · 2 months ago

Please seek medical help as a matter of urgency. You clearly have problems, hopefully curable.

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

just for your infromation i work for the tube and i have not received a pay rise in over a year and a half at least. Yes we are on a reasonably good wage but if you had to work these kinds of shifts dealing with extremly difficult ppl you would not have this attitude towards us. 7 days of lates getting home at 3 in morning then after the weekend, 7 earlys getting up at 3 in morning, yes i signed up for this but this is why we earn good, and oxygen is free. why dont we go back to slagging off the real arsehole mps claiming what i earn in 8 months for their second home mortgage. irrelavant but just to show we are losing perspective, sorry for spelling .tired after long shift but i will try not to take too much oxyge as i have no right to it cause i wear a roundel on my shirt

John · 2 months ago

Wow, this incident has gone viral: it's one of today's most viewed videos on YouTube...

grahamstaunton · 2 months ago

U sad pathetic cunts! Go get a life rather than slating tfl! U DONT HAVE TO USE THE TUBE, walk u fat cunts!

Chris L · 2 months ago

Wow, that's a fantastic argument that really adds to the debate.

Unfortunately the Tube is a necessity for those of us that have to commute across London.

Now fuck off and get a job you utter, utter loser.

grahamstaunton · 2 months ago

I have a job Fuckin ur mother! U should get a life rather than sayin shit on here! U pricks are all jealous u havent got a union in ur jobs and that u twats can get sacked and no one will defend u! Thank god the transport industry still has unions, and thank god they're on more money than u! That way they can afford more condoms when they fuck ur mum, no one will ever go bear back on that ugly bitch!

crowisthick · 2 months ago

Very elegant for a union retard! Ps you don't get paid more than the suits, I assure you.

sabz19 · 2 months ago

Wow... At least go and get some primary school education on how to spell 'Your' and 'Fucking' ... and 'You'... Even my five year old sister knows how to spell it.

grahamstaunton · 2 months ago

Im not suprised ur sister knows how to spell fucking, its propably because thats ur special thing u do with her u sick fuck!

danwoodhouse · 2 months ago

so you expect someone to walk from say, Hornchurch to Oxford Circus?

what are you talking about?

No One is "slating" T.F.L, they are slating a small minority of London Underground staff who havent got a high enough imagination to deal with everyday situations.

now, why dont you calm down, stop swearing and going on about other people's mothers is totally irrelivent to this blog.

grahamstaunton · 2 months ago

U can use a bus, tram, national rail, bicycle or even taxi and boat in london! If u dont like underground, use something else! No one is holding a gun to your head to use the tube?! You use it as, regardless of what you retards say, its the safest, fastest and easiest way to commute! So stop moaning, pick up your free copy of Metro and fucking do one you bunch of cunts!

t · 2 months ago

why dont u piss off u idiot wanker.
get some respect, and no im not being respectful to you because people like you dont deserve any.
RETARD.

graham60 · 2 months ago

Is your real name Bob Crow? If so this song is for you. In fact if it's not, this song is still for you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYVJSOFZxDE

grahamstauntonsmum · 2 months ago

Graham! There you are darling. Come home, mommy wants her dinner after her long walk home. Hard day at the orifice dear?

Chris L · 2 months ago

You do understand that if he's sacked, TFL will probably strike again? It's a real shame to see this type of reaction from any member of staff.

Not all of TFL are bad mind. I was on the circle line Thursday at about 10:00 when the driver spotted an elderly blind man at Canon Street who clearly needed assistance. He stopped the train and called for other members of staff to help. It restored my faith a bit that some of them do care.

Oh, and well done for blogging it, this could easily have been missed and unpunished.

Gemma · 2 months ago

Yes he was out of order for the outburst but did you really need to post the video on the web and tell the press? This is being blown so far out of proportion and there are going to be repercussions for everyone who works for and uses the underground.

You had video evidence, you should've given it to lul and let them deal with it, if they shrugged you off then yes, post it.

Loads of people all tightly packed in with places they need to be, staff trying to manage it all. There will always be heated people about and this one incident caught on camera only proves one thing, we're all human, not robots. Emotions can't just be switched off. If this guy does it often, fine, he should be reprimanded but why post his face for all to see?

I've seen horrid 'customers' sprouting abuse at staff because they 'pay their wages', the staff members all just stood there. So it goes both ways and Lul staff are told to be understanding, how about the people using the tube do that? Yes they pay their fares, yes they expect a service but abuse goes both ways and humans can only take so much regardless of their jobs.

grahamstaunton · 2 months ago

Well said! ;-)

jMac · 2 months ago

Actually, I posted it (like the thousands of previous blog posts) because I found it interesting.

Just so you know.

whowantstoknow · 2 months ago

Really Jonathan ...
This time you didn't just blog it you went 1 extra step and send it to the press.
Jonathan if you were genuine about it and really are the type of person that fight for what he believes in then you would of diffused the situation at the time of the incident. You wanted to film it ok I can go with it but then you should have made a complaint with video proof to TFL. But no instead you went on posting the Ian’s name and where it works on the web and send it to news paper. You didn’t do it out of concern for the public interest but for your own motivation/publicity. You actually use it for your personal interest (Great interview by the way). Ian has the right to his privacy. Jonathan there might be a few things in your life that you are not proud of and where you acted unprofessionally. Would you like it to be published on the net or in the news papers with your picture and your name attached to it? I don’t think so…
I really hope this is not going to back fire. I really hope that nothing happened to Ian, as I said previously would you be able to sleep at night? The guys fucked up big time but the punishment you just gave him for your personal agenda is blown out of proportions and unfair. You have started a hate campaign against that guy for god sake get real.

adrianclark · 2 months ago

Maybe that's a good reason for posting it, though, Gemma... there *should* be repercussions. Lots.

We're constantly told that the feral youth who supposedly roam our cities feel no responsibility for their actions and fear no consequences. Maybe that's the case, although I don't really see it; however, I think this is an issue in service industries (and corporate behaviour, although that's a whole other story). We pay outrageous prices for often incompetent and ignorant service. Yes, there are some absolutely fantastic staff members on the Underground (like every business) and the incompetents are in the minority, but the bad experiences tend to resonate more deeply.

We're quite rightly reminded by posters in shops and on the Underground that aggressive behaviour towards staff will not be tolerated, but it has to work both ways. Everyone is tired, stressed and in a hurry, but if a couple of seconds are saved by being brusque and rude... is that really a positive thing? If I see members of staff behaving like "Ian", but am then told that aggressive behaviour is not tolerated, I then re-calibrate my concept of aggressive to a higher level... "Fine, I'm not allowed to actually stab these people in the ear, but Ian's behaviour is the norm, so I shall do the same."

whowantstoknow · 2 months ago

The reason he posted it was for his own publicity adrianclark, trust me you have to know the man to know

whowantstoknow · 2 months ago

I totally agree.

Ty · 2 months ago

He's clearly way out of line, but I've got to ask why his managers have put him in a situation where he gets so stressed?

His employers also let him down by not assessing the stress that his role puts him in and giving him the required support before something like this happens.

urbansurgery · 2 months ago

Sorry, I call bullshit. There is always some one else to blame isn't there.

Its simple. He blew his top. It is unacceptable behaviour in polite society. Blame stops there.

mathewbirkin · 2 months ago

if it was a polite society, then the white haired guy would be following the instructions of the lug staff member. So really they are both to bame.

happygilmore · 2 months ago

I am atravelling member of the public that uses the tube daily, travelling through Holborn Station. On that very same morning I saw a LU worker behave in the most proffessional way under the worst circumstances, as he physically stopped a man from committing suicide.

The member of staff was not this Ian guy but in all the years i have travelled through Holborn I have never witnessed a member of staff behave like this. The girl in question actually helped my daughter when she fainted on the station some months ago, and was very supportive. I also witness a female member of staff at that station getting punched in the face by a drunk man when he tried to attack a woman and child some months ago too.

Yes Ian reacted badly, but all my experiences with LU staff have been positive. I have seen first hand the abuse these people suffer on a daily basis, Please don't go through the tube station abusing the staff, without them that woman and child would have been severly injured and my daughter would have been left on the platform for all the public to step over her and yesterday morning hundreds of people would have struggled getting in to work as there may well have been a dead body on the tracks.

denisecwo · 2 months ago

I absolutely agree with you! There was no need for the elderly man to be treated this way. Obviously the staff member has personal issues but one need not project that onto others. If one can't one doesn't belong in a servicable job. Let him sit in an office where there's not stress, cos he can't handle it.

Let the staff member a. get fired or b. get reprimanded and an open apology in the press. Oh and mandatory therapy. Anger management seems like a good idea. Plus that woman needs a little course in how to treat humans as people too. In fact, let's hope this even leads to a mandatory 'how to be kind to customers and keep your cool' course for ALL employees. I've worked in stores for over 15 years and yes there were times I wanted to kill customers too, but you have to keep smiling and stay nice and calm, that's what you're there for when you're in a service job. Only if there's a real problem you address it as such, but this display was not needed at all. What he should have done and said was; "I am sorry to hear this happened sir, it's a bit of a mess at the moment as you can see. Please step back a bit for your own safety and we hope the rest of your journey will go without hassle. We are sorry you got trapped due to it being so busy, our apologies." (and add in his mind; please don't sue us) In fact, for such things, if it happens by no fault of a passenger they should give out a voucher for a free cup of coffee for the inconvenience.

They did it in the Netherlands. If by some mistake of the train something happened or you got a delay of longer than an hour you got a voucher. In fact these days if your delay is longer than an hour you can fill in a form and get your money back!

I understand its a stressfull job, but hence why proper training is so important, that not alone, also pre-training of how to deal with accidents and suicides by people, this is a high hazard job psychologically. If people get proper training such reactions in situations like this would happen alot less.

Nash · 2 months ago

They deserve a reprimand. Maybe not lose their job, but definitely at least a warning.

Name · 2 months ago

Ian is the one who deserves to be slung underneath the train, let alone lose his job. We see the big posters about how they don't tolerate abuse against their staff by passengers - I am tempted to print out posters describing the inverse, and paste it all over holborn station.

Do something about it Boris.

Dans · 2 months ago

People can really irritate you, but that is not way to react. I would get a severe warning at work if I did something like that or even put on leave without pay. That is atrocious behaviour!

syh · 2 months ago

What I can't get over is how unimpressed the staff woman is when the gentleman calmly explains what has happened to him. He is trying to help improve service and in fact, the woman should tell him that she is sorry for his experience. I also give the gentleman a lot of credit for remaining calm as Ian continues his tirade. I find it unforgiveable that the woman staff person clearly higher up than Ian doesn't tell him to calm down. Ian is a bully. Why must the gentleman see the police, even his colleague didn't try to back him up with that nonsense. It is simply a way for Ian to prove he is in charge and doesn't want to hear any complaints. I know the job is stressful but acting like a brute is no way to get things done. This job is not for him and he needs to be reassigned and absolutely needs better training. He certainly owes the gentleman an apology and to the public because I am sure this is not the first time he has acted like a utter jerk.

wgh · 2 months ago

You deserve a good pat on the back for filming it :)

whowantstoknow · 2 months ago

Does he? really? because ?
JMac was a great hero by posting it on the web instead of saying something at the moment. Come on. All i can say is that i really hope for JMac sake that nothing happens to Ian. By this i mean, yes TFL should sanction Ian as he need to confront the consequences of his actions however i hope that no member of the public take matter in his/her own hands and do any harm to Ian, i also hope that Ian personality is strong and that he and his family can get over this. If anything happened, I hope that Jmac will be able to sleep at night. There were no needs to go public at this stage and mentioning Ian name you made it very personal and by the way if Ian is ready this I would really think about a law suit. I have rights about your privacy.

happygilmore · 2 months ago

syh... if you listen carefully you can hear the female member of staff apologising to the man. This girl has done nothing wrong, she cant control what Ian is saying. You cant punish someone for being stood next to Ian. We have all at one point been stood next to someone shouting their mouth off, does it mean we share the same views and be sacked.

bored23 · 2 months ago

Well done for capturing this! Just reading through the comments and to all those sticking up for Ian, you are all idiots! He works with the public and can't act in this way. And YES he is a bully picking on an elderly gentleman. I rarely use the tube (thank god!) but if I was shouted and screamed at like that, I would have put Ian on his arse in a split second.

Linni · 2 months ago

The most disgusting thing about this is the fact he probably wont feel even a little guilty. as someone who always takes pride her job (even if its a minimum wage temp job) it makes me so angry that people can behave this way at work and think that because they work for such a large agent, they will get away with it. well done for smashing that illusion.

x

Name · 2 months ago

Good for you! I'm going to complain, too. I think I might ask my Facebook friends to complain as well. Of course, they have procedures. I expect he'll only get a warning, but at the very least it might stop him doing it again. I witnessed a similar incident years ago where a policeman was extremely rude to a group of passengers when a train was delayed - called us animals. We'd all surged towards the train that had been announced, but on realising that there were a lot of people pouring off the train, we were all waiting patiently and making as much room as we could when he made the remark. People get stressed out by crowds, but that's no excuse. People who can't handle it shouldn't be in the job - they might antagonise crowds who need to be kept calm, for one thing, and increase any danger.

Jackart · 2 months ago

I've blogged this, and written to BoJo, pointing him here.

Travelling in the UK is vile because of Bullies in High Viz vests getting armed police back-up at the first difference of opinion.

HTrox! · 2 months ago

Ian's behaviour was completely disgusting. His behaviour was completely out of order - there is absolutely no excuse for it. That abuse is sickening and he should be punished appropriately. It's a shame that he has given TFL workers bad press, who otherwise normally do a very good job.

jMac · 2 months ago

Follow up post here by the way: http://www.jonathanmacdonald.com/?p=4042 with some more comments - for better or for worse.

David · 2 months ago

Having read about this in the Sun newspaper and viewing the footage was little shocked by it. I don't know whether it could have been handled better, perhaps the member of staff should have walked away from the situation. I do think it wasn't a nice thing for that staff to do that. Thing is we don't know what led up to this as you only filmed the part where he calls him little man etc.

There are a few things I've got issues with and Jonathan let me quote on a few things here:

"So we have two things.

Staff threatening to throw passengers under trains and in return, prices going up."

Your making out that all staff are going to throw people under trains. Hang on a second because of the results of one mans action you are stereotyping the rest of the staff on the Tube? How can you justify that? Not all are the same like this staff member in question and there are decent members of staff who are polite and help people in their day to day jobs. That’s like saying you going into Sainsbury's, get shoddy service from one member of staff who isn't polite, so what they are all the same all of a sudden?

"London is already more expensive than most, if not all, European cities. Added to this, it has terrible reliability issues and by the above account, staff with dubious intent."

Try going outside of London to other towns in England where transport isn't as frequent or it’s more expensive compared to London.
And what reliability issues? Yeah you still get issues like signal failures from time to time but its better than what it was 10 years ago.
And what intent do staff have? Again your making out everyone is the same just from one experience.

"The monopoly that is our system leaves us few alternatives. We just have to suck it up – absorb the threats and pay the difference."

What threats is this? Do you mean staff threatening passengers because in the years I've used the tube I've never had a problem with their staff? Should maybe clarify that a little better? And as for monopoly well how else is it supposed to operate?

I find it a little irritating that you just stood there watching and filming it and you did not do a damn thing about it. Why did you not intervene and maybe diffuse the situation? I find that behaviour quite selfish and you stood there letting it carry on and speaking of the filming........

You also broke and offence by filming on a London Underground station. It is a private property and you are not allowed to unless you apply for a permit from the LU Film Office. You are also not allowed to film altercations between staff and passengers. Refer to their terms and conditions.

Also the elderly gentleman in question disobeyed a direct order from a member of staff which is also not allowed and you can be arrested by the police. If a member of staff is telling you stand away from the platform edge you do it, it’s for your own safety. I've seen it where people are told to stand away and they don't listen and just makes you think some people are a law to their own and not considering their actions which have an impact on others.

I don't have a problem with you making a complaint about that staff member but do it through the correct channels and keep it like that, rather than filming it and spreading it over the media to get a little bit of fame and attention out of it.

Angelina Bumsqueeze · 2 months ago

@David Are you well upstairs? "I don't know whether it could have been handled better." Are you serious? I don't see how it could be handled much worse! This a perfect example of how not behave in a public-facing role. He did *nothing* right in handling the situation.

"I find it a little irritating that you just stood there watching and filming it and you did not do a damn thing about it. Why did you not intervene and maybe diffuse the situation?"

Think about it. The Tube worker is obviously some power-tripping egomaniac in an orange jacket. You think that another piece of tube-travelling-fare-paying-public "scum" has the right to calm him down? Course not! he'll "get the police" on your case tho.

"You also broke and offence by filming on a London Underground station. It is a private property and you are not allowed to unless you apply for a permit from the LU Film Office."

Woopy-doo. Who the hell cares about not being able to use a camera in a tube station when you have a power tripping arsewipe being caught red-handed making a mockery of himself (good) and Tube workers everywhere (bad). Who *cares* David.... who *CARES*. If it wasn't recorded, he would never be held properly accountable would he! And you can bet your life that all those hundreds of CCTV cameras in the station wouldn't have picked-up the essential details of this exchange anywhere near as well.

Get some perspective man!

David · 2 months ago

Well how about we get some perspective of the whole footage all about 56 seconds of it. This incident was going on prior so we only have an account of what this man has said. Ever heard the phrase two sides to every story?

tube-travelling-fare-paying-public "scum" so why are you referring to Jonathan with that description? As much as I agree and disagree with this whole thing there's no need to call him scum is there. What do you mean he has no right to calm the situation down? There's nothing to stop him to is there? So your saying you would just stand there and watch? If that man was say your friends father and you saw him in that situation your just gonna stand there and film it?

I think its you that needs to get a grip on reality Ms. Bumsqueeze. Who cares? Well I don't care too much about your opinion but your entitled to it.

Angelina Bumsqueeze · 2 months ago

>> tube-travelling-fare-paying-public "scum" so why are you referring to Jonathan with that description?

The irony was obviously lost on you.

>> If that man was say your friends father and you saw him in that situation your just gonna stand there and film it?

No, in that situation Ms Bumsqueeze would have wadded right in there and gave him a piece of my mind back. The whole situation would have got nasty and (naturally) in the minds of the tube workers and Transport police it would be all my fault and so be charged with some public order offence. They would use their CCTV and statements from follow workers to back up their version of events while all *my* witnesses disappeared and went about their day. Meanwhile, the camera reveals all. He did the right thing - observed and recorded the event.

In any case, it wasn't a "friends father" it was a a fellow human being. I'd like to think I'd have done the same. Same goes for police and other public facing personnel.

Hooray!

Nick Gerson · 2 months ago

The fact that you used 'hooray!' in isolation at the end of your sentence says a lot about you.

Again, I bet if you were to come face-to-face with a situation such as this you would have said nothing, like most people in London, "wadded straight in" yeah, okay.

But, whatto, great to see those uncouth RMT louts getting caught before they hit us fare-paying scum with a strike.

cddupp · 2 months ago

the fact that you've picked up on this poster's use of the word "hooray" sadly says a lot about you

Angelina Bumsqueeze · 2 months ago

Nick - you weren't paying attention. I said I would have "wadded straight in" *if* it was "a friends father", not a stranger. And yes I would. So would most people I think. Again, if it was a friend I would, if it was a stranger, I wouldn't. Instead observe + record would be the best option given the circumstances.

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

its tfl that raises fares, the rmt just protect the workers from people like you who would sack him for loosing his cool, he did not swear or assault the guy, he needs to be given a chance to defend his actions its a democracy after all. if you got arrested for assault and everyone was saying it was you, you are to blame wouldnt you think....but i had a reason

Johannes · 2 months ago

The thing that is most striking are the responses from so many people, many of whom I bet would be the first to complain that London is the most heavily monitored city by CCTV coverage in the world. Yet here they are, castigating a man on the basis of someone's videophone footage being posted online. Whatever your views on the incident, surely there must be some agreement that society has taken a turn for the worst inasmuch that fellow human beings are so quick to give evidence and gnaw away at the few remaining liberties we have by quickly reaching for their cameraphones?

It's a reflection of the times; we live in a world where for most people even something as mundane as a drink in the local is not complete without the cameraphone ready to load up the following day's latest album on Facebook. Again, another product where people's privacy is ignored for the interests of its overzealous users.

FWIW I do not defend the outburst and use of foul language by the guard though I am aware of how difficult his job may be. He is now suspended and will be reflecting on his actions. I can emphathise with his employers because in a previous position, one of my members of staff did similar with a customer who subsequently lodged the complaint. The said member of staff was suspended for a short period and asked to produce a written apology to the customer or face losing his job. The matter was resolved.

Hopefully this how this case will be handled and that 'Ian' is regretting his actions and will think very carefully before launching into similar tirades in the future.

But I reiterate my previous comment that his job down there is far from easy, customer-facing roles are anything but as people by their very nature are unpredictable. I hope his employers give him a fair disciplinary but ultimately he comes out of this a changed person.

BTW I am no member of the RMT or any other union despite what previous posters have said.

Name · 2 months ago

Well, Mr McDonald, you have half the world looking at your blog (I mean, who do you think really cares about your life and opinions?), so you are obviously important and have something to talk about at the water cooler and your next dinner party. Happy now?

Jo · 2 months ago

You obvioulsy care or you wouldn't be here responding to it?

graham60 · 2 months ago

Thank you for posting this. I appreciate most tube workers do a difficult, frustrating job and, in the main, they do it extremely well - where would London be without them. But I have witnessed similar, though not such quite severe outbursts from members of underground and bus staff. They love bossing us around with their perpetual station announcements. They tell us that abusing their staff is unacceptable, and rightly so. If a passenger abused a staff member like this, they'd be arrested and prosecuted, I've no problem with that. But I reckon Ian will get away with a mild slap on the wrist as the Underground doesn't have the stomach to stand up to the Union.

patrickohare · 2 months ago

The question of the female guard is important. On the blog JMAC describes her as laughing. On the TV news report he said she chuckled. Some other posts here, I dont know if they are witnesses, have described her as 'shrugging'.
These discrepancies in the story hint at a sort of frenzy in the reporting.
There is a great difference between all these actions, someone might chuckle,but not maliciously, at the turn of events. The lady was seemingly branded in the report as a cohort of the unruly guard, when in fact she is obviously trying to placate the situation. I doubt very much, when one studies the video that this lady would have condoned the behaviour of the male guard.
Its childish to imagine that there will be no conflict between passengers and guards as the LU is quite a hectic environment. It's improper to blow things out of proportion. I travel by bus quite frequently and it seems that almost everyday there is some altercation between the driver and a passenger.
Obviously its not what we want in a civilised society, you just have to look at the way the public are treated in many other countries where police and guards use canes to control queues. It could be we are heading down that road. In countries like Japan and Switzerland for example, people stand behind security lines without having to be shouted at by staff.
My point is that transport staff, police, etc are constantly under strain, and it may be that prior to any incident such as we have seen here , that these staff may have been spat at, verbally abused, even threatened with assault, it cant be easy for them to suddenly switch off the adrenalin and assess the next situation in a completely calm fashion. They have a tough job. They are for the most part considerate polite, and helpful when you weigh up the kind of environment they work in. In the countries that I have mentioned above, the transport staff are appreciated and respected. The public are suitably educated to understand that they provide a service to them. When a guard asks you to stand behind the yellow line, its for YOUR safety, even if he appears unfriendly in asking you.
This train guard who shouted at the gentleman was wrong, he should apoligise for losing his temper. However,the incident did not merit the publicity its received.
We should all learn something from this, and I think the first lesson is that we take the responsibility ourselves to obey the rules of the LU. Stand behind the yellow line without having to be told, and when the doors are closing, do not put your foot or briefcase in to stop them.

darrell · 2 months ago

you are the hero jonathan for being quick. Without this, the man would not be able to get very far and the underground workers who were so disrespectful to a pensioner.

i hope BOTH underground workers get sacked and the man gets compensation for the incident.

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

BOTH? only one was saying anything remotely abussive. But i suppose she was in blue so hey all lul staff are the same are they stupid, apes with no brains........i didnt get compensation when a guy threatened to stick a knife in my neck or when i was sexually assaulted or when i was racially abused nope. so why should this MIDDLE AGED MAN get compensation when he refused to listen to an AUTHORISED member of the railway staff, which is a breach of the conditions of carriadge by the way. When it comes to safety you do exactly what the staff member tells you to if you dont you could risk their life yours and others its that simple, the stafff in question should have been a little more pc that is alll

H McManus · 2 months ago

i am sure you are aware of the rules about using cameras on the underground. you have broken the railway byelaws and i hope lul prosecutes you. the staff on the tube have to take untold abuse from customers and as soon as they say something back weasels like you run off to a manager with silly complaints.
it looks like that man will lose his job now because of you and i really hope something nasty will happen to you or someone close to you in return.
also that man was not "elderly". he looks to be in his mid fifties which is not "elderly"

sabbathfan · 2 months ago

McManus you are a horrible horrible person. Just because the guy has to put up with shit from dickheads doesn't mean he has ANY right to behave that way with the man in question. You must be the thickest pisce of shit on the internet. Well done, quite an accolade.

And wishing harm on the man who video'd it or someone close to him as an horrendous thing to do. You are nothing but sub-human scum.

graham60 · 2 months ago

@McManus, the railway bylaws were not broken. If you read the bylaws it's OK to take a snap shot - haven't you heard the rules about no flash photography? - or take some video if you're not using lights or a tripod, and in both cases, don't hang around doing it for more than 15 mins. If people wish to photograph or film longer with professional equipment, then a permit is required.

andrew1975 · 2 months ago

Graham DP Laws have been broken also there could be a case for suing the person who wrote this blog for the distress that has been caused. There is ways and means to complain. Ian didn't exactly deal with this incident well but the person who took the video and the person who wrote this blog could find themselves looking at proceedings being taken against them

Kevin O'Reilly · 2 months ago

What are DP laws, and which have been broken?

daniel · 2 months ago

you a factually incorrect here - Ian would have no case against anyone.

We are in a new media age - time have changed - with the loosers being people like Ian and your self who are too stuck in the dark ages to know what's going on.

Ian could - and in opinion my should - be prosecuted for foul and abuse language, assault and threatening behavior - some may even consider his last words a credible death threat. Extreme I know but this could happen to him. People like Ian have no place in society if they continue to behave in this manor.

Nick Gerson · 2 months ago

LOL @ the Black Sabbath fan.

Anonymous · 2 months ago

I thought what you did was excellent. You documented an injustice and made it public.
Everyone has the duty to do this, but it takes courage to actually go ahead with it.
Thank you.

William · 2 months ago

Thank you for bringing this incident to light. This is not the only example I have seen of the lack of respect TFL has for their customers. I say TFL, as the organisation as a whole should bear responsibility for not bringing in proper training, processes and accountability.

For example, one night I was transfering from a train terminating at earl's court to one continueing round the circle line. Unfortunately the doors on the continuing train closed as the terminating train's doors opened. No worries. The train moved one or two inches and then stopped. The door at the front opened to allow a TFL employee to dash over from the terminating train (no doubt on her way home), but none of the actual customers now waiting on the platform were allowed to board.

It's sometimes as if they really don't care, and why should they?

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

Its not about training. We are all trained well for our jobs on the underground however you cant train someone how to act when they loos their cool that is ridiculous. It was wrong of him to say what he said and if i were ejecting a member of the public for a good reason i would call for the police and hold the train in the platform i would not swear or say anyting that he could hold against me. Lets face it this such a small thing i have seen members of the public do ten times this abuse with racism and even violence thrown in with not so much of a warning but a staff member saying what HE said (and he didnt swear) and it recieves all this public attention. i was sexually assaulted a few years ago and nothing happened where is that justice?

Jonathan's Biggest Fan · 2 months ago

Instead of you sitting there smugly enjoying all the attention you and your little blog are getting, I just want you to think about your actions and the effect they have had on someone you know absolutely nothing about. Maybe he has a wife and child that needs to be fed? Who do you think you are turning the masses on him?

I hope you have enjoyed ruining someone's life. There is absolutely no excuse for speaking to a customer in the way Ian did, but is it really an action that he deserves to have his life ruined over? You see displays of appalling customer service all over the world in all kinds of areas of work, but luckily for them they've never crossed you! He'll lose his job for this and who will hire him? Millions of people have seen this clip now. I have absolutely no doubt that you have added your own little spin on the events too.

Enjoy the attention... This is what this blog entry is REALLY about - it's not about TfL workers.

mojo · 2 months ago

Maybe he should have considered his (hypothetical) wife and kids before he started abusing the customers, eh?

Nobody owes the surly bastard a thing, just for the record.

Lawrence · 2 months ago

I hope Ian pulls himself together but at the same time companies can't hire people who abuse customers in this way. I've done shop assistant work and I would never speak to a customer like that even if I couldn't stand them - especially not an elderly chap.
Hopefully Ian will be given some kind of help.

graham60 · 2 months ago

Perhaps Ian should of though of his wife and kids (if he has them) before setting off on his rant

aaron · 2 months ago

Are you for real? Having a wife and kids doesn't give anyone the right to publicly humiliate an elderly person over something that was in no way his fault. I've seen the same thing happen on the public transport system in Dublin where I live, and you'd better believe I made an immediate complaint to those concerned, although I wish I'd thought to blog it. To be honest, for Ian to treat and speak to this man in the way that he did, using the words that he did "Just because you're a jumped up little git, I'm not going to hold up other people's journeys for a little girl like you" speaks volumes about the type of person he is and his outlook on how to address and interact with people and if he can't handle proper respect for people trying to go about their day then he's in the wrong fucking job. ps if ya hate the blog so much, sling your hook

graham60 · 2 months ago

One further point, for the pedants out there, you mentioned about wondering whether the train was going to proceed east, when it was a west bound platform. (you know what people can be like)

Ned · 2 months ago

Well said Jonathan's Biggest Fan, but don't expect a puffed up sneak to think of anyone but his own important self - he's A Successful Business Man and his victim is only an oik, a nobody who deserves to lose his job because he spoke to Possibly Another Successful Business Man, even though he didn't appear to swear at or touch him.

As for you, Mr Look At Me MacDonald, far from being the public spirited "hero" who's "frightened to go to Holborn Station again" despite being a black belt at kick boxing, you just appear to be an attention seeker, whatever the cost to someone else. There must be thousands if not millions of non events like this one every day, minor altercations between employees and public, usually forgotten as soon as they're done. But this time you were there and you wanted your fifteen minutes of fame. Bad luck, Ian.

You looked so pleased with yourself on the telly. How does it feel to be the leader of a lynch mob?

claire1984 · 2 months ago

I would have loved to have seen Ian say "sling him under a train" about a 6ft 4" burly guy!! In my opinion he's lucky he picked on an old man!! he's lucky someone didn't sling him under a train!! Loads of people have stressful jobs, loads of people have to put up with people who arn't very nice! That's life!! But you have to shake it off and get on with your job!! Not start calling people names!

Question to the people who are upset that he could be losing his job- would you employ a nice friendly guy like Ian!?!? Would you find it acceptable if it was your wife or child who had trapped their arm- and instead of getting an aplology- you get abuse and then hear them say "sling them under a train"? Be realistic- the guys a top class arse!!! Manners cost nothing!

And if ian feels better for talking to people like that then fine but I really don't think he should be working with the public!!!

sarah_the_suburbanite · 2 months ago

Have you any idea what underground work is like? Have you any concept of the stress levels involved when every passenger over the line could be a jumper, or worse, get pushed accidentally and fall under a train? Or how much abuse these lads take every day from fare dodgers and drunks and druggies? Or from pompous business me who think they know best? There is a loud warning beep whfn the doors close - what was the old man doing leaving his arm in the door? Or was it just his coat, which is more likely but less sensational for you?

Ian should not have sworn, and if the chap had an issue it was the right course of action for ian to suggest that he went to the transport police. I fail to see what business it is of yours at all. Have you never, ever, said something rude behind someone's back?

Angelina Bumsqueeze · 2 months ago

>> Have you never, ever, said something rude behind someone's back?

Uh..... hello?

Something rude - check.
Shouting - check.
More that once - check.
One of the busiest locations in London - check.
"Behind someones back" - nope.

Relevance failure Ms Suburbanite.

claire1984 · 2 months ago

Ms suburbanite,

There's rude and there's rude!!

I'm sure there are many people who work in the public sector or even the services, who get abused by rude people every day but they get paid to deal with it, and if they can't- find a job elsewhere!

Plus- how do you know the guys not deaf? Or not used with the underground?

itwillallbefine · 2 months ago

Because if he was deaf he wouldn't have heard Ian was swearing in the first place, if he wasn't used to the underground he just had to listen to the instructions (Stand clear of the doors is pretty clear, as is removing your arm from a closing door, and let's face it, those doors are not the fastest in the world!) and he clearly understood English or he wouldn't have been able to apparently be so reasonable.

I do take your point that there are people who get abused every day - soldiers and airmen by the anti-war lot, doctors, teachers, bin-men, and so on. And in every situation there are people who snap and retaliate - often those who their colleagues would thought to have been the last person to go. A good example is the teacher that lost his temper with a horrendously behaved child and hospitalised him. He didn't mean to, he didn't start his day intending to do it, it just happened. It shouldn't have happened, but like Ian, it did.

This is nothing like the same scale, and has been blown up out of all proportion by Jonathan, in an apparent deliberate act of self-promotion.

Saying "Just get another job" is an easy thing to type, and a hard thing to do in the current climate. Unless one is a hermit (and that is a poorly paid job at best with very little work life balance) then one has to interact with the public. In any job there will be someone who doesn't like what you do, and has a pop at you. This could happen in any job.

That not-so-elderly gent was out of order to be over the line - it's a safety issue. Had Ian have left him there, not said anything, and he'd been pushed accidentally under a train (and yes, it has happened) then the same baying mob would be after Ian for dereliction of duty. I am not saying that Ian's method of delivery was good, it wasn't at all, and there is a definite case for taking him through disciplinary for it, but Jonathan chose to deny the route of justice in favour of making some kind of social point (he says) or a blatant act of self promotion (I believe)

It's a moot point now anyway. What is done, by both parties, is done. Justice and basic procedure has been replaced by the rule of mob. Lord of the Flies is on the way....

claire1984 · 2 months ago

I can totally see where you are coming from- I guess each individual has different stress levels! But Ian does deserve at least a warning! And maybe some leave!!!

At the end of the day, Ian needs some help with his interpersonal skills and the old man needs to stand the right side of the yellow line and not hold his arms in closing doors!

By the way I think the teacher who previously put a boy in hospital had previously had a Stroke causing a change in his normal personality!

andrew1975 · 2 months ago

Claire1984

Nobody is paid to take abuse

Being abusive to London Underground staff isn't a sensible thing to do, at the end of the day EVERYBODY has a right to be treated with respect

claire1984 · 2 months ago

You're right but the one being abusive was the LU worker!

It is quite clear that it isn't sensible to be abusive to a LU worker, as ian said, you may even end up being "thrown under a train"!!!

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

no no no NONONO! we are not paid to deal with it, we provide customer service and SAFETY, we do not get paid to take abuse or rude behaviour and if you came to me with that kind of attitude you would get no customer service, i am a human being and i expect the same respect you would give anyone. I bet your the kind of customer who chucks their oyster in the bowl and chucks a ten pound note in with it and just stares at me, or better looks elsewhere...or even better starts chatting on the phone. NO we are all humans not animals we treat eachother with respect and if you cant give respect do not expect it back. PS most of us take rudeness on the chin but abuse never if you abuse a member of staff expect to be ejected by the btp. there is no excuse for treating a customer that way but the opposite apply too.

claire1984 · 2 months ago

You're missing my point a little. You're right, no one deserves to be abused but my point is, ian should be trained with dealing with people who are rude and abusive, hurling foul language around isn't the way to deal with it, and neither is muttering nasty offensive statements either! I work with the public and I can tell you, I have had Dealings with abusive, nasty, nasty pieces of work! but I am never ever rude, it's called being professional and polite. People who are rude should be delt with in a correct way! That's all! In this case anyway the person I feel who was the rudest was ian!
And vegeta, You should never assume!! I've never thrown my money at someone expecting them to just do a job!

itwillallbefine · 2 months ago

The "throwing him under a train" line, presented by Jonathan and therefore the press as a threat to the passenger, was no such thing, as it was not directed to the passenger as he had already got on the train.

Not a relevance failure Ms Bumsqueeze (although typing that made me laugh!) merely an observation.

(different computer logs me in as a different person! Interesting, tho' I am still me lol!)

danny_h · 2 months ago

Just want to say well done Jonathan MacDonald, and thank you for bringing this to the public attention. To sarah_the_suburbanite, yes we can all accept that work on the undergroud is stressful and mostly a thankless task, but you are still a public service and this no way to behave regardless of the circumstances. Essentially if you, or anyone else thinks this is an acceptable way to treat your customers you are in the wrong career.

itwillallbefine · 2 months ago

At no point have I said that this was an acceptable way to treat customers, and I fully admit I could not work on the Underground. But this witch hunt is no way to treat another human being who simply shouted at someone. If he was some kind of mass murderer, child rapist, fine, out him, ruin his life. He's not.

I'm a teacher. I love my job. I wouldn't leave my kids for all the tea in China, but after being criticised by a parent for the fact their child can't read when we have already diagnosed severe dyslexia, provided 1-1 tuition, and the parent has said "I can't be bothered to hear her read, it's so frustrating," or parents who prefer to dope the child on Ritalin rather than deal with mild ADD with behaviour help, (and yes, some children *need* it, not most.) or parents who say "The reason my child isn't doing her home work is because you have spastics in your class and they don't have to do theirs!" then I could get absolutely fuming with them.

But my home life is stable, my mental state is calm, and on a bad day I just refer them to the Headteacher. We don't know the situation Ian was in, we don't know what's going on, we do know he attempted to refer the "gentleman" to the police, and he refused to go, like a naughty child who knew he'd done wrong - after all, if this gent had a real issue surely he'd have wanted to go himself? Where is he in all of this?

Essentially for me, this comes down to Jonathan choosing to ignore the system for his own self-promotion. This isn't acceptable, and the way Underground staff get treated isn't acceptable - I've reported passengers to BTP for their behaviour towards staff and praised staff for the way they've handled it, and would continue to do so.

This is opportunistic bullying at it's worst.

Michael K · 2 months ago

Why are people having a go at J McD saying that he has "ruined this guys life"?

1/ If his life is indeed "ruined", he ruined it himself by being a twat.

2/ How is this necessarily going to ruin his life? It sounds like this could be just the wake-up call he needs to straighten himself out because judging by his behaviour, his life already seemed quite a ruined one, before J McD popped up with his camera phone.

You can't put a great big safety net under everybody, regardless of their actions. If the social contract that binds us is going to function at all, you need to have consequences when people overstep the mark, and that is what Ian did. He probably knows so himself.

Ian now has a great opportunity to get a haircut, (to continue the blessing in a disguise theme), possibly change his name and emerge from this situation a much more pleasant and personable person than how he entered it.

J Mac very well might have saved his life.

Angela · 2 months ago

Michael K

Posting a blog entry (or video) of the incident and informing TfL of it is one thing but bringing it to the attention of the media is an entirely different matter. People are still angry about the forthcoming fare hikes for unreliable services and considering that one of Jonathan's areas of expertise is 'effective public and press communication', he knew what would happen once he informed the media.

"J Mac very well might have saved his life."

If Jonathan wanted to save Ian's life, he should have followed standard procedure. Going to the media should be the last course of action. One cannot blame Jonathan for the outrage that has arisen but after reading his other blog entry on this incident, I get the impression that Jonathan's intentions may not be as honourable as I first thought.

What Ian did was deplorable but I don't think LU should take any disciplinary action against him because he has already been punished enough by the social media and commentators. This kind of over-the-top outrage can be very damaging to the target. Ian does not deserve to be vilifed.

I also find it strange that while this incident has been all over the media, not once have I read or heard any comment from the elderly gentleman who was the actual target of Ian's outburst. Jonathan may consider quitting while he is ahead or may find himself as the villain by the end of the week.

Michael K · 2 months ago

Despite being the villain of the piece, I do genuinely feel for this Ian chap and what he must be going through now. I would ordinarily agree with you that it is wrong to vilify someone and subject them to this level of intense speculation.

However, as nameless says in this post...

http://www.jonathanmacdonald.com/?p=4024#commen...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Perhaps seeing footage of the nastiness displayed regularly by modern society will promote the resuscitation of manners and etiquette".
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It might seem harsh on Ian but I am not too uncomfortable with the idea of there being a sacrificial lamb here, for the greater good.

I'm London born and bred but left because I could no longer stand the coarseness and inhumanity of the place and I think tackling this type of behaviour, regardless of whether the perpetrator is young or old, male or female, black or white, in customer-facing role or are themselves a customer, whatever, it's all irrelevant.

Londoners need to learn some common respect and decency for each other. I am shocked every time I come back what an asylum it is and how little regard people have for each other's well being.

This episode raises those sorts of questions for me as an onlooker. Whatever J Mac's motives were, I think he's provided a truly invaluable service here so I applaud him.

As an aside, some of the class warrior stuff on here is pitiful and embarrassing. Please stop.

Angela · 2 months ago

I agree that the behaviour of many people in London leaves much to be desired but this incident is not going to change people's behaviour.

"As an aside, some of the class warrior stuff on here is pitiful and embarrassing. Please stop"

I do not indulge in class warrior arguments. You may find my parts of my comments pitiful and embarassing but it's no more as pitiful as that snide remark you made about Ian's hair.

Michael K · 2 months ago

Really, really sorry.

My post may have looked like that last sentence was aimed at you.

It wasn't. It was aimed at a few other posters who keep bringing class prejudices into the conversation. Your post was highly reasonable and made me question my own position.

Angela · 2 months ago

Michael K

No worries. Misunderstandings happen.

While I did not agree with your comment on Ian's hair, I would not have brought it up or even described it as pitiful had I known that your 'class warrior' comment was not aimed at me. I'm sorry.

Railway Employee · 2 months ago

"the assumption that someone who doesn't reason very clearly is incapable of successfully studying a difficult subject."

I am not quite sure how to look at your latest comment......initially I thought it was a touch patronising, which doesn't go down well with me!

I am studying Forensic Science M4Matt, it's an intriguing subject I must say!

Anyway, I thought I'd make a point that not all Rail Workers leave school with no education, as SOME commuters' love to stereotype!

Some people work on the railway because it interests them, what is wrong in persuing an interest?

I still believe both people were in the wrong, and it is thanks to Johnathan's video that it has been highlighted!


Nobody can argue with facts M4Matt, whatever you think about Byelaws!
I am not arguing with the facts that MR Macdonald has of Ian being an idiot, but what happened prior to this incident remains both unsaid and seen!

barry5678 · 2 months ago

Ian's rants are very mild for London. At least he wasn't trying to kill anybody. There are countless bus drivers who are demented creatures. Twisted with rage they thunder down the streets. I've seen them offer passengers out for fights, spit at people, threaten to run people over, swear at people and swerve at people deliberately. It can't be economical to pack the roads with half empty shit houses driven by badly trained maniacs.

cyrusthevirus · 2 months ago

Ian's behaviour is totally wrong and he should be subject to disciplinary procedures and re-training or dissmissal. But does he deserve to be filmed and have his actions pasted all over the press and the internet?? No, Ian is not a mass murdering maniac, child killer or tyrannical madman.
MacDonald, if you felt so strongly about Ian's actions you could have placed your complaint privately with your video evidence to back you up.
Why you had to publish this online and send it to the press is beyond me, like another poster has said I believe you are a fame seeker and a wannabe local hero. Well congratulations MacDonald you have your 15 minutes of fame and so does Ian.

Name · 2 months ago

So many people are criticising this display as not being a way to behave in public facing roles. I'd say that it is no way to behave in any situation.

Perhaps seeing footage of the nastiness displayed regularly by modern society will promote the resuscitation of manners and etiquette.

Nick Gerson · 2 months ago

This isn't about caring for Ian or the 'elderly' gentleman, this is about a continued bashing of LU staff and RMT members in general. So some people are rude and use naughty language in a public-facing role - shock horror!

I bet most of the critics on here are the types that proudly carried their 'I'm Backing Boris' wallets on the tube and have nothing but utter disdain for the workers doing the 'shitty' jobs they would never dream of doing.

Yes I can imagine it is annoying when you have to encounter situations like this. It must rile people like Angelina when she sees those unworthies in their uniforms getting angry with passengers. Heaven forbid if they miss their connecting train, it might mean waiting another 3 minutes before being able to see Henrietta for the pre-planned ham-and-eggs jaunt in Fitzrovia.

This is just another case of Tory or New Labour-voting, moronic job-snobs condemning workers who have to put up with their arrogance on a daily basis.

Olleus · 2 months ago

So by your logic people who aren't paid much are allowed to be rude to others?

So what's the maximum wage I can be paid beyond which I'm not allowed to threaten to kill people?
What about if I just want to insult their mothers?

Perhaps you should publish a book on etiquette and list what insults your allowed to use at people who earn more than you. Perhaps you could even sub-divide it into different categories depending on whether they earn 10,000, 20,000 or 50,000 more than you. Because as everyone knows, not being a snob excuses everything.

Name · 2 months ago

I'm living in a different country and have been to london once, for the weekend. I have a 'shitty' job no-one would dream of doing. So suffice to say your description doesn't apply to me. But an asshole is an asshole. And that guy REALLY seems like he's an asshole.

TheLostSwede · 2 months ago

As someone who's not born and breed in the UK, but lived in London for eight years, I'm not at all amazed. I'm now living in Asia and although there are less people living in the city I live in, the public transport system here is excellent, even during peak hours and the staff is polite and doesn't scream abuse at passengers.
Having a bad day just doesn't cut it in this case, there's no need to be a rude **** just because things aren't going your way. We all have bad days at work, but luckily most of us can restrain ourselves.
Imagine a world full of people that blew their tops off at work every day, we'd have fisticuffs in the corridors...
This guy is out of line and that's the end of it. I doubt it's the first time someone's been verbally abused by staff on the London underground and most of the time you're not treated like a customer, but rather a pain in their backside when you approach staff on the underground.

With regards to pricing, I can go from one end of the city I live in to the other for just over £1 and that's over an hour on the local underground, which by the way runs faster, is air-conditioned and much cleaner than the London underground. You even get discounts if you ride a bus before or after your underground ride here, as to make people chose public transport over other means of transportation. Ken should come over and visit, maybe he can learn a thing or two...

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

" I'm now living in Asia and although there are less people living in the city I live in, the public transport system here is excellent, even during peak hours and the staff is polite and doesn't scream abuse at passengers"

Possibly just possibly asian customers treat their staff with the respect we here do not get, treat others unto....well you know the reast.

Jackson Madden · 2 months ago

Deeply, deeply, erotic.

ui · 2 months ago

people should have blasted into the london underground song !
These two deserved it.

chriscollins_1 · 2 months ago

Question: does Ian know he's on the internet?

antonynett · 2 months ago

Answer: Yes of course he does.

Mad Katie · 2 months ago

I mean, HELLO? I mean, I thought the old man's arm had been RIPPED OFF AT THE SHOULDER but no if you count them you can see that HE STILL HAS TWO ARMS SO I DON'T KNOW WHY EVERYBODY IS BECOMING HYSTERICAL WHILE PEOPLE LIKE ME ARE STAYING CALM AND KEEPING OUR HEADS AND YES I AGREE THE TANGO MAN IN THE ORANGE JACKET DOES LOOK AT BIT GAY WITH HIS PRETTY LITTLE PONYTAIL BUT HIS SEXUALITY IS HIS OWN BUSINESS ESPECIALLY WHEN HE COULD HAVE RIPPED THE OLD MAN'S ARMS OFF WITH HIS BARE HANDS BUT HE SHOWED CIVILITY AND RESTRAINT BY TREATING THE ELDERLY GENT WITH KINDNESS AND CONSIDERATION AND THAT'S WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE WORLD TODAY EVEN IN OUTER MONGOLIA PEOPLE DON'T SHOW RESPECT FOR OTHERS AND THAT IS THE CURSE OF OUR AGE.

Mad Katie.

andrewmilner · 2 months ago

This would like never, ever happen in Japan. Station staff would be apologising to the passenger, particularly as "English gentleman" still cuts a lot of ice. God alone knows why. Britain:Hate it and leave it. While you still can.

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

WHAT, in japan station staff push passengers into trains physically! and japanese commuters treat station staff with great respect as they are in authourity, people here do not, Station staff do not get treated with respect so i could say the same as you but aimed at passengers. Rude or not an instruction is as it is, We do not ask you to stand behind the yellow line we tell you, it is an instruction and if you can take instructions dont take the train, staff are there for safety above all else and if a grey guy cant see sense then maybe he deserved it.

Norris McSquirter · 2 months ago

Ahhh another tube worker, with a point of view that aligns itself perfectly with the actions of the famous Ian.

>> "if a grey guy cant see sense then maybe he deserved it"

You utter, utter, spanner. You enforce the the stereotype that people detest most about tube staff. You expect respect just because you're a tube worker, regardless? Really? People often don't respect tube workers because they've seen this kind of display before - yes, tube staff being completely and utterly rude and unprofessional, needlessly and exuding sheer arrogance in the process. *THAT* is why people often don't respect you.

claire1984 · 2 months ago

UNPROFESSIONAL- nail- head- hit it!!!

Vegeta: are a supervisor or something!? One of these people; A little bit of power and suddenly the world is against you!!? I bet you're one of those people who throw the customers change at them and chew gum in there faces!!! Do you enjoy your job?? Hmmm, taking bets on NO!!

andrewmilner · 2 months ago

Ian in the clip is a schoolyard
bully in a job that allows him to continue dishing out abuse in the adult
world.

The contrast between UK today and
Japan is stark: Disneyland and a minimum-security prison. There’s a massive
difference between being willingly pushed on to a crowded train and verbally
abused by platform staff. But then there are some that so instinctively side
with authority they still think de Menezes “had it coming”.

In contrast, Japan's a polite, disciplined, well-behaved, law-abiding country, where "English
gentleman" still commands respect often resulting in preferential
treatment. Britain is in terminal decline, and if you haven't grasped that yet,
then you're just not paying attention.

Sometime I ponder just what type
of risk-averse loser would willingly remain in UK when there are so many better
options throughout the world. But I guess I've answered my own question.
However, to those that feel, "I deserve better than this", get into
character as an English gentleman and seek your fortune in the colonies.
Britain: Hate it and leave it. So let me give you a pointer: In some respects,
China's where Japan was in the early '70s.

jonnewman · 2 months ago

I have nominated this blog for the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction. It is utter crap and entirely misrepresented by yourself.

cdtfc · 2 months ago

misrepresented or not - no member of the public should be spoken to by a service provider like that. We pay money for services. Not abuse.

Jinky · 2 months ago

THIS CLIP DOES NOT SHOW THE LEAD UP TO THE INCIDENT!!!!!!!

Did the "gentleman" abuse the member of staff?? We do not know.

Underground staff get abused on a far too often daily basis. How would any of you like it if someone came into your home/office/workplace and gave you dogs abuse??? I'll bet you wouldn't tolerate it.

We only see one side of the argument here. Yes the tube worker was in the wrong, but you try and put yourself into the workers position. You have a platform full of probably disgruntled people, and you are trying, for their safety, to get them behind the yellow line. The yellow line is there for a reason.

If the "gentleman" had fallen under the train because the tube worker wasn't doing his job properly, rest assured there would have been far more complaints going in.

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

And we are not paid to take abuse just the same. Service is provided but rules must be adhered to and the staff told he to remove himself from the train, he broke a byelaw and is lucky the btp was not there to arrest him, when a police officer ask you to do something its the same thing, on the railway the staff member is in affect the police and are there to make sure the rules and safety are adhered to. You cannot polite eject someone from the station do yuo live in fairy tail, maybe you do id love to be in that one where everyone sings harp songs and talks to eachother like fairies.

Name · 2 months ago

Sweetheart, LU staff are not the police. Give someone a uniform and they think they run the place!

chris_uk1959 · 2 months ago

I have to totally agree with jinky's comments . what exactly was said before filming started ? and how did the whole incident start ? you seem to be quite smug when you say this worker will lose his job but you have only told one side of the story , if the shoe was on the other foot so to speak what would you have done ?
London undeground staff suffer verbal abuse on a daily basis , also physical abuse and also assault . because of irate customers who do not listen or do when requested by staff to do something , all they are interested in is getting from A to B ( its called tunnel vision or the blinkered effect )
speaking as someone that has worked for lul for over thirty years i know what im talking about

giles_100 · 2 months ago

There's nothing to suggest that the elderly gentleman was being rude or offensive to Ian. Chris, it seems that you are grasping at straws in a kind of desperate attempt to try and defend the indefensible.

M4Matt · 2 months ago

I see we have some TFL (or similar) employees defending their right to abuse commuters (presumably with equally poor grammar). Let's spell this out: - in most private sector businesses if you shout and swear at a customer, regardless of the provocation, you expect to lose your job. There is a phrase, 'the customer is always right'. It shouldn't be interpreted literally, but what it means is that customers are important and need to be treated as such. You might not like this, but the fact is they pay your salary and expect certain things in return. The tube monopoly is, of course, a special example of this, but it doesn't change the principle. Then, of course, there is basic decency that should prevent one person from hurling abuse at another, even if they themselves have been on the receiving end. I should add that there is no evidence the commuter in the video behaved improperly, but the above points are valid regardless. I'm sure the majority of TFL staff are perfectly nice, reasonable people. However, the employee in this video appears to be representative of a vile significant minority who subscribe to the view that if a commuter complains say it's nothing to do with you; if they complain again call the police. One only hopes that management at TFL is suitably embarrassed by this and makes an example of him.

Norris McSquirter · 2 months ago

Well said!

peter33 · 2 months ago

I think if LU called the police every time a commuter complained there'd be no service.

You might want to work on your grammar before commenting on other peoples too

M4Matt · 2 months ago

I didn't say they did and your comment is irrelevant anyway. But since you raise the point, I assume you realise the reason so many commuters complain is because the service is so poor. This is the dilemma a tube customer faces: - I pay lots of money; I receive a terrible service; what should I do? From your tone I assume you think they should just lump it. Now I know the station staff have little to do with overcrowding and late-running trains, but when you are 'customer facing' handling complaints goes with the territory. Far too many TFL/LU staff react as we have seen on this video. My view is that that sort of behaviour is wrong. What do you think? Is it acceptable? Would you liked to be talked to like that? Would you want your family talked to like that?

Witty comment about the grammar by the way.

Archie · 2 months ago

I'm horrified that this video has been so widely circulated and this member of LU staff has had such a barrage of abuse. Mr MacDonald I think you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself, it's not your business to do stuff like this. It is such a one sided, biased and unfairly slanted set up, it just proves that looking at the item, and also the quite deplorable views of some posters here that it's just another anti LU thing to wind people up. So so stupid. I would like to shake hands with Ian. As you can see he lives in the real world and not one of some stupid stuck up idiots who think they deserve better. Grow up and get with it.

Richard · 2 months ago

For someone who 'detests injustice' you seem to have a rather warped view of what it constitutes. How dare you arrogantly promote 'social media' as judge and jury and since when do your films and blogs the reactionary opinions of those who view them constitute truth and fairness? Maybe in future we should just get you to accompany the police wherever they go, film any crimes they observe on your mobile and then we can have a public lynching dependant on the outcome of yet another pointless blog.

I note with interest the comments you submitted to TfL, referring them to this blog rather than outlining your concerns directly. Doesn't quite sit together with your proclaimed selflessness and championing of 'justice'; especially given the advice you then offer, not to mention the opportunity for them to procure your 'services', whatever they may be. Presumably they consist of means to deflect the attention created by the irresponsible posting of fragments of incidents by individuals who aren't directly involved.

You should be ashamed of yourself if that man loses his job.

anotherobserver · 2 months ago

Richard (I am sorely tempted to use the abbreviation), and indeed all the others who are harping on about LU ‘workers’ (now there’s an oxymoron) and the common man – what can’t you see here?

Ian is paid to do a job. Part of that job is not being rude to people. At all. Ever. I completely accept that people should not be rude to Ian either. But they are. They are not paid to adjust their attitude as he is whilst in uniform, representing LU.

Being an offensive LU worker, no matter what the provocation, is not just wrong in the eyes of the general public, but should be wrong in the eyes of anyone else who wears the LU uniform. It doesn’t help the cause, in fact it simply says to me that the view of LU workers is that offensive behaviour is actually acceptable under circumstances of ‘extreme pressure’ or in retaliation. I may well remember that next time I am ‘under pressure’ due to poor service (delays or overcrowding) or when I get short shrift asking to use the manual gates as my overpriced season ticket suffers arbitrary rejection by the automatic barriers. I hope you the ‘common man’ LU workers will judge me by your own standards and not complain as I vent spleen?

To go back the specific gripe from Richard (Dick) – injustice is letting a bunch of people run amok under the banner of workers rights whilst the customers suffer. Think of Jonathan as the LU customers version of Bob Crow, but with a slightly more balanced and objective viewpoint and less of a personal agenda. We don’t have a self-serving gobshite representing the LU customer. We have videos, from people not directly involved, to give a window onto the real world underground. Let’s hope not just Ian’s boss, but many other LU bosses are watching, learning and managing.

Phil Dawson · 2 months ago

It looks like Ian has some rather disturbing issues. The female guard is quite clearly untrained in the marshalling of crowds.
What can we do? We, that is, We the People. We can continue in our daily drudge and if any of these higher than mighty people show up to bark orders we CAN 'just ignore them'.

Remember though it is ONLY the uniform that has power the individual that animates it is ones equal.
The other thing to remember, do not mimic these people - the universe has a swift and powerful way to enforce karma it will come back to them eventually, if it already hasn't. The sad thing is though they may not even notice it, their lives may just be that sad.
So just in case feel sorry for them.

Kindest Rgds, Phil

ChrisROMF · 2 months ago

This is Karma at its best. My fiance used to work with Ian and he used to throw his weight around and push customers around then! He bullied the young girls he worked with and always had some unresolved issues. He chooses his targets to pick on to make himself feel big.

Mr Macdonald you have demonstrated excellent journalistic skills to highlight in the act a low life bully. You are officially my fiance's hero. I salute you.

Mad Katie · 2 months ago

Did anybody notice right at the very end of the movie just before the credits there was a man who looked like Gordon Brown (Prime Minister of England) and he had a mad look in his eye and instead of getting on the train he went sprinting down the platform in the direction of the retreating Ian (Tango man with ponytail) and I would have liked to know what happened next so maybe there will be a sequel movie where we see Mr. Gordon-Brown-lookalike inflict punishment upon Tango man Ian and teach him a lesson which he jolly well deserves and then Mr. Gordon-Brown-lookalike will become a national hero for the modern age.

Mad Katie.

Richard · 2 months ago

'anotherobserver' you are missing the point; noone is defending the way Ian behaved, least of all me - my gripe is with MacDonald and people like you spouting rambling diatribe in response to a 30 second video. Your assertion that because you've witnessed poor behaviour you infer the right to visit that behaviour back on Ian's colleagues and peers is childish to say the least - I might as well say that next time someone in a suit pulls out on front of me I'll ram the next suit-wearing person I see off the road.

Clearly you have a problem with the fares you pay and the service you receive: fine. Why should that affect the consequences a member of staff faces for misconduct? I hope if you make a mistake or have a moment of indiscretion you are afforded more understanding and leniency than you advocate for Tube staff. How would you like every mistake you make to be recorded, publicised and commented on by hundreds of people? And why should one individual arrogantly decide that fate.

In short: grow up - your 'Dick' comment says it all about the level of your intellect.

anotherobserver · 2 months ago

‘Dick’. (I simply call it as I see it.) You are missing the point.

Whilst I accept that you may not have directly defended Ian in your initial post are you selectively reading a large number of the other responses here? Lots of people (many of whom gleefully badge themselves as LU workers) are defending him.

If you had read my initial piece thoroughly you would see that my assertion is not that I have the right to ‘visit that behaviour back on Ian’s colleagues’ on the basis of the behaviour I have witnessed in the video. Rather, I am suggesting that perhaps I adjust my behaviour to mirror that which I experience from Ian’s colleagues as, from many of their responses here, many are advocating ‘an eye for an eye’ escalation of abusive behaviour as an acceptable response. In some cases they suggest that this retaliation doesn’t have to be directed at the same member of public from which any original abuse stemmed, just blow when you feel like it!

Personally I don’t think this is an acceptable way to behave, but was interested that so many self-proclaimed LU workers here thought it was. I’m sure, and indeed I hope, that this is not the majority, (although a quick tally of the comments here says otherwise).

I do have a problem with the fares I pay and the service I receive. This is not ‘fine’. It is a testament to the stinking, self-serving unions that impact on our transport systems. Those unions who protect people who demonstrate they have no place in public facing roles. I am not talking about an individual (Ian), but rather those more numerous ‘LU workers’ who start yapping whenever one of their kind is held up to public inquiry after being identified and questioned (see numerous posts here) for behaviour that in any other walk of working life would simply be unacceptable.

It is those same ‘workers’ who will doubtless respond to my disgust at the service I receive on the underground with a smug “don’t use it then”, “walk” or other such disconnected advice (again clearly seen in posts here) in the belief that the world owes them a living and safe in the knowledge that their odious union will defend this pipe dream regardless of customer opinion, or even customer presence.

At this point I would like to apologise to those LU workers who don’t think that abusiveness in a public facing role is acceptable and would invite them to step forward and speak up above the noisy, empty vessels that are their self-serving colleagues. I know that there are some who will have reacted to Ian’s behaviour with shame, concern or even an increased desire to improve the service.

I don’t know if the good apples are actually in majority or minority anymore, or if the barrel is irreparably damaged. My experience of over ten years travelling daily on the tube doesn’t give me enough support to come down on either side – an equal balance between palatable and rotten. Surely that in itself speaks volumes about the ‘average’ standard of personnel?

Whilst individual staff members are absolutely not to blame for much of what drives my frustration of LU they are a key part of the overall experience and therefore a key part of the problem or solution. In my opinion (and in the opinion of some of the other posts here) Ian’s behaviour is indicative of the worst of the LU attitude to the public. The extreme end perhaps, but that makes it less forgivable and more important that it is addressed for the public and the good apples.

You ask me how I’d feel if ‘every mistake’ I made was recorded and broadcast? Firstly I’m not above admitting that I make mistakes, apologising for them (something completely lacking here) and learning from them. Secondly we’re not talking about ‘every mistake’ in Ian’s case. We’re talking about verbal and (from what I can see in the limited footage) physical abuse of a paying member of the public. I don’t care if he takes too long on a tea break, chucks a sicky or turns up late, but not being rude to and avoiding manhandling customers is fairly fundamental in a public facing role. If it were me I would absolutely expect to be out of my job and not reasonably expect the weight of a mis-guided union behind me.

The fact you say we should be “ashamed if that man loses his job” presumably demonstrates that on the basis of just this short clip your decision has already been made as to what is the appropriate fate of Ian? The fact that the full context wasn’t caught on camera somehow vindicates the actions that were? The point here is that the video has revealed:
- That this is not an uncommon experience for many tube travellers.
- That this is not an isolated incident with Ian and formal complaints as well as other negative customer experiences not reported as complaints have come to light.
- Some shocking attitudes toward what is acceptable behaviour from certain areas within the LU organisation. This should result in some serious action by LU management to address the situation, but I doubt it will. (This was the original point I made - manage him, not sack him).

Is it fair that Ian is the public scapegoat for all that is bad with LU? Probably not, although I stick to my assertion that the behaviour in the clip is wrong, but I think the response to the clip has proved of public interest and has opened a debate that should have been addressed long ago. His final fate will not be decided by open forum, but at least those deciding his fate and what they might learn from it will have a guide as to what the public feel is required from their staff.

NoahVale · 2 months ago

Blimey! It seems from this site that the whole of London hates Tube employees, & loads of us are using this short video of one silly fellow to justify our views & get a few things off our chests. I wonder what these comments would look like if we substituted the phrase "TFL employee" or "Tube staff" for "black person" or "homosexual".

A bit like Jan Moir's column in the Daily Mail, I expect.

M4Matt · 2 months ago

Erm? Bit of a straw man argument I fear. Has anyone here really said that all transport staff are bad? If so they're silly. However, I think plenty of people have pointed out that some transport staff are unpleasant and bad at their jobs (or at least bad at doing what we the customers think they should be doing). Nothing wrong with saying that. Some black people are lovely. Some are gits. Some gays are ugly. Some are gorgeous. Am I not supposed to say that?

But you have a point that there is lots of spleen being vented here. That may be in part because we're fallable creatures who get angry far too easily. But I'll bet a pound to a penny it is also because too many transport workers think it is OK to treat their customers like crap. And I think I shouldn't be ashamed to say that. Reading the Daily Mail: now THAT is shameful.

noahvale · 2 months ago

Yes, it was a bit straw man, Matt. I'll admit that. I was exaggerating slightly to make the point about spleen venting against transport workers that you accepted in your 2nd paragraph.

Before you vented your spleen about transport workers.

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

your last sentanc was perfect, Steroetyping is wrong! how would people react if i said all muslims were terrorists or all black people were in gangs or all white people were pedophiles. NO ONE would accept these comments as they put all from the same social or racial background into the same basket of an extremely few minority. Same applies here DO NOT stereotype, just because no one uses race or religion does not mean that putting all tube staff in the same basket is not as bad. PS no offence was intended im just to show the double standards which exist in society.

anotherobserver · 2 months ago

What a ludicrous argument. You are not paid to be black or homosexual. You don’t sign a certificate of gayness or blackness that outlines an agreement of how you should behave during the work day. It is nothing like this issue - a paid staff member of LU, in uniform, behaving in a way that goes against their agreed and expected conduct.

Now let’s look at a really interesting twist to your stereotyping argument and replace “old white guy” with a “black man” or “homosexual” being abused by an LU worker. I think the tone of many of these posts would be different again.

Oh I love the overly PC world of the liberal do-gooder.

noahvale · 2 months ago

"You are not paid to be black or homosexual."

You are if you're RuPaul.

trouserspants · 2 months ago

The old man in the expensive suit could probably afford a taxi but felt like pissing off a lowly peasant that day.

JOE PUBLIC · 2 months ago

I am extremely appalled by your video! This CSA did not do the right thing, he should NOT have screamed at the passenger, but YOU should not have added more fuel to the fire! These camera phone video's are silly! Your an extremely insensitive, nope, wrong word, erm, THICK person!

You are being extremely bias in this video, you are showing what happened half way through an incident, what happened at the beginning? WHY did this CSA get so angry? You say, the customer got their arm caught in the door, dont make me laugh, I can see straight through your LIES!! If that was the case then there would not be some much anger!

London Underground is the best tube system currently in the world! and has won awards for this! sure it can be over crowded and yes the prices are high! but you pay for what do you get! Go to another country, pay less, get NO staff to help you and most likely mugged.

Give the underground a break! If its that bad why in hell do you use it? By travelling by tube everyday you are supporting it, so dont be thick and post against it! If you dont like it, walk, get a bus or get ur arse on a bike!

RANT OVER!!

Sorry I just dont like to see people singled out, and only be given half the story!

Ned · 2 months ago

On the complaints form Mr MacDonald gives Ian's height as between 5'6" and 6'0'', - i.e he could have been a dwarf or nearly a giant - from a few feet away and after he's been looking at him for a few minutes; he gives the direction of the trains as eastbound when they were actually westbound; and he describes a bloke as elderly, implying some frail 90 year old but who actually looks middle aged.

With such a reliable witness describing the absolute non-incdent it wouldn't surprise me at all if the "elderly gent" actually took his time getting off the train in protest or even thought he was in luck seeing all those empty seats and was actually trying to get on; and it would be interesting if the cctv film, the real one not the fun video, showed that the "elderly gent" had elbowed Ian, as has been suggested elsewhere. Funny how the "elderly gent" move fast enough to beat most of the others onto the train.

It seems Mr MacD is MD of a media company and this could be useful material for promoting his business at the expense of Ian. But that would be alright because Mr M is management class and Ian is only a blue collar worker, dispensable, non-returnable.

The more I think about this the more repulsed I am by the gloating Mr MacDonald. Beware all you baying for blood, he could creep up behind you next.

Anna Fruen · 2 months ago

He's as good as fired, we've all seen what people power can do...

stopabusing · 2 months ago

Shut up, Ned! You don't have a clue what you're talking about. You are talking rubbish!
I wish it happened you to see how you would react. The guy looks old. Not "90 Years' old" old, but "MIddle age - Old" old.
People like this don't even deserve to be called "People"! Take him to your home, if you like him that much. Baahhh...
He should get a big guy and that big guy should just smash his little stupid idiot face against the floor!

I hate this people, and I hate people like you that promote and defend this kind of scum.
I hope he gets the sack, as there are so many unemployed people around, it shouldn't be hard to find a replacement. And YES, I AM ENTITLED to speak like this! You know why? Because I PAY HIS BLOODY WAGES! That's right, my montly £150 helps to pay for his wages for him to go out there behaving like an animal.
And you, Ned, you are like the dogs: Coming here waving you tail just to get a piece of attention. Well, here it is. Don't ask for more, because you ain't getting any more.
Now be a good boy and go lie down in your little dog pen.
Man, I feel ALIVE! :)

Ned · 2 months ago

I can see where you get your user name. Actually I do have a clue as to what I'm talking about because recently a tram driver deliberately shut the doors on me as I was boarding, his reason being "you stopped running", ie I ran past his cab but had the temerity to stop as I reached the doors. Of course, I complained, the cctv bore out my story and I got an apology from the company and their assurance that he would be covertly watched from then on, end of story as far as I was concerned. I didn't seek his dismissal. So yes, more than a clue. That bloke committed far worse than Ian but the whole business was finished in two days. Just imagine if the public spirited hero with a camera had been there.

Where did I say I like him? I don't even know him, any more than you know him enough to hate him and call him scum; at least he's doing a responsible job, and a pretty thankless one at that judging from the posse chasing him. My, some of them are in an ugly mood. Or maybe you do know him for all I know.

People are overreacting massively over an incredibly trivial event, a minor altercation, only a fraction of which they've seen, and that only in pictures. And it's Mr MacDonald seeking attention round here, not me. Have a look at him on last week's news if you can.

But enough, my master's shaking my lead, I'd better go.

SW · 2 months ago

"at least he's doing a responsible job"

but he doesn't appear to be doing it in a responsible fashion 'Sling him under a train' doesn't suggest to me that he's acting responsibly, even if it's been misconstrued (which I doubt) I think it's hugely irresponsible to act in such a way.

People doing a responsible job is only praiseworthy if they do it in a praiseworthy fashion. If not, then it's a big problem- not something to be commended.

Natasha · 2 months ago

This is just a reply to a few comments here...

1) He did not film the incident from the beginning because obviously none of us are randomly walking around the streets/tube with cameras on. He saw it was happening and thought of a solution, which is why the video doesn't show everything.

2) Whether the passenger is middle-aged or old, rich or poor, who cares? He's a customer and should be treated fairly. This would not have happened with a celebrity or high-profile politician, which really is stupid.

3) There are lots of good people working for TfL, but sure there are some pretty bad ones too. Regardless of any of this, this incident just came to show the things Londoners have to put up with and so far nothing has been done. I found "interesting" that someone posted that London has the best tube system in the world and that other places would be worse. I do not agree and this comment is typical of someone who hasn't been out to see other places much. I visited quite a few countries, with better, cheaper services (Germany, Holland, Belgium to name a few!). We have virtually no night transport system - unless taking three hours to do a normally 30min ride is considered "one of the best in the world"!!

M4Matt · 2 months ago

Transport staff hate commuters. That's the conclusion you're unavoidably drawn to by reading several of the posts here defending 'Ian'. I'm generalising of course. What I really mean is: many transport staff have a disdain for commuters; they feel they are doing a difficult job with little gratitude; they think that justifies being rude to commuters sometimes. Why they feel that way is irrelevant, although I assume it is largely down to a combination of having to deal with genuinely rude commuters regularly, plus the embedded culture - I'm sure there are plenty of 'old lags' in TFL (etc) who tell the new recruits what scum commuters are.

The question this video raises is simple: is it ever acceptable to be abusive towards a customer? The answer I've seen over and over again obscures the issue and goes along these lines: - We do an important job; commuters frequently fail to recognise that fact and are rude to us; therefore it is OK to be rude to commuters.

Well, that's your opinion(s). What you have to accept is that everyone else (well, virtually everyone else) thinks that it is NEVER OK to be abusive towards a commuter. If you did that in most any other job, you would be sacked. Commuters know that. They also know that they pay a lot of money for a poor service (yes, Paris, Madrid, Moscow, Tokyo, etc, are far, far better and generally much cheaper). Therefore, when we see a TFL employee shouting abuse at a customer, regardless of the circumstances, it makes us angry. We are perfectly entitled to discuss it publicly and to say that in our opinion (as your customers) the culprit should be disciplined in some way. That's life.

An alternative example. I used to deal with a customer who was abusive to every member of staff he spoke to. One time he was swearing at me for no very good reason. I snapped and said (shock horror) "well, of course you're always right and if you're going to f**king swear then I'm going to f**king swear as well." I was forced to apologise or face disciplinary proceedings - not a very nice prospect when you can barely pay the mortgage. That made me angry, but I accepted I had stepped over the line. That's life.

What Ian did was at a whole different level. IMO, whatever the circumstances he deserves severe disciplinary action.

Charlie · 2 months ago

Oh children, do behave!

Some of the comments on here are pure vitriol, from both sides of the argument, I might add.

Furthermore, Mr. McDonald you have apparently breached the London Underground's policy on filming which states the following:

"Filming

In accordance with LU company regulations, the following activities are not allowed to be filmed or photographed:

* Vandalism or graffiti
* Assaults on passengers or staff
* Fare evasion or ticket touting
* Use of firearms or weapons
* Misuse of escalators or LU property
* Unlicensed busking
* Begging
* Smoking or the use of illegal drugs
* Behaving in an overtly sexual or indecent manner (including nudity)
* Direct threats (including terrorist) to LU, its staff or passengers
* Anything that may negatively affect the interests of the site owner"

Note, " the following activities" includes "Assaults on passengers or staff".

You should have simply provided TFL/London Underground with your evidence and let them investigate the incident. Instead you have encouraged a 'kangaroo court' to hang this individual out to dry without a fair trial. Freedom of speech is very important, but it should be used responsibly. If, after this man's bosses have investigated this incident, he is found to have acted inappropriately then he should be reprimanded appropriately in line with his employer's disciplinary procedures.

So, you have lost the high ground by submitting your video for public consumption before any investigation has been carried out.

We must assume that not all members of staff are abusers; I myself have never encountered such behaviour during my travels. Yes, I pay over the odds for my season ticket and yes the service can be disrupted on occasion. However, that is not the fault of the staff who are there to assist us and we must remember that, in our dealings with them, they are under pressure to please everyone. On the other hand, I do accept that a small minority (like in every other walk of life) are not as professional as those I have encounted. If I were to encounter an unhelpful member of staff then I would deal with it myself at the time by making a note of the facts and reporting it directly to TFL.

There's an old saying, "If you are happy with our service, tell others, if not, tell us." I would guess you already had an axe to grind with TFL and chose to take your anger out by exposing a simple heat of the moment event like the one you have posted here. I have read about 'others' saying things about this man and I do question the reliability of these quotes from people whom the likes of the Evening Standard always seem to find and report about.

Well I do hope this incident has a satisfactory outcome. Let's leave the complaining for the man in the video and the investigating to TFL/London Underground.

Thanks.

Charlie.

anotherobserver · 2 months ago

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anotherobserver · 2 months ago

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anotherobserver · 2 months ago

Thanks for that list of, at best objectionable and at worst illegal, stuff to do on the tube network. This isn’t a list of activities not to film it’s a list of things you shouldn’t be doing anyway!

Presumably LU had created this list of ‘activities not to film’ in the hope that people wouldn’t do them, rather than wouldn’t film them? Thank you LU for spending your time generating such ‘useful’ information.

Surely capturing any of these actions on film, (even in part), is a public service either journalistically or as criminal evidence? I hardly think the act of simply capturing one of the aforementioned actions constitutes ‘losing the high ground’ even if it is on a spurious list created by LU.

Sharing the film publicly is another matter and the ethics of this rather depend on whether you think it is in the public interest or not.

claire1984 · 2 months ago

Anotherobserver you do make me chuckle!!

Isn't it good to know that now if we see anyone murdering or attacking someone on the tube- We won't film it!! Or even if a busker is playing my favorite tune i'll hold back!!!

Where do these people come from??

Ian was filmed because he caused such a commotion people were amazed by his Stinking attitude! And he deserves disciplinary action!!

vegeta3113 · 2 months ago

You are a man/woman of substance and i wish all members of the public had your insight and objective, unfortunately most seem to be taking out their hangups on this member of staff, maybe the fares are his fault or maybe the delays are his fault hey blame it all on the man who is at the bottom of the pile simply doing his job.

mbmb11 · 2 months ago

OK, i am a tube worker, a CSA like Ian. I do not think his conduct on the film was acceptable. However, i would only think it fair to see the whole incident before passing judgement. I actually take a lot of pride in my job, and am always friendly and helpful (customers at my station will always testify to this!!) However, a number of points to note: Staff shouting. Customers do ignore us sometimes and crowded stations mean we are often unheard and so when safety critical information needs to be conveyed we do have to shout sometimes - its not at individuals, so if you're at the front of a crowd, sorry!!!.
Its a shame as this deflects from the excellent work we do - reuniting people, lost passengers, saving lives when people fall onto tracks, detecting criminals on the network, being not only a travel advisor but london advisor also. Please dont put us all in the same basket. Our tube network is over 100 years old remember, it may be more costly than our european counterparts, but please bear in mind, every station is staffed 24 hours a day, it can get you to the other side of London in half an hour, and tourists from all around the world comment positively on their tube travelling experience. Im proud to be a tube worker, Im proud of the Roundel, and think London should remain so so proud of the Tube.

jMac · 2 months ago

http://www.jonathanmacdonald.com/?p=4058

RailwayEmployee · 2 months ago

Johnathan there are a few key things that have led me to conclude that both Staff and passenger were in the wrong.....

1/ You state that the customer relayed his experience of being trapped in the doors to Ian.

Answer: Whilst Ian should not be behaving in aggressive manner to any customer, he should of actually responded to that customer by reminding him that he should not attempt to board or alight trains when doors are in the process of closing in the interests of his own safety, and also customers that ignore the doors closing safety warning are in breach of a railway byelaw.
This could explain why he wanted that customer to see the British Transport Police, as they can fine those that break byelaws.

An answer like the above may be the words of a jobsworth by some commuters, but it brings a firm but factual point across.

I personally would not even bother having a customer fined for an issue such as that, however if somebody was to complain about that to me, that is what I'd tell them.

Ian is a very sorry excuse for a Customer Service Assistant, and he has given those of us that take our jobs' seriously look bad!

Whatever Ian's "story" is behind his outburst, whether that be a large number of awkward customers' prior to this incident or just having a bad day, he could simply of taken 'time out' had a short break to allow some relief of any earlier stresses, and then returned to duty.
Instead, he chose to behave what can only be decribed as a "ticking time bomb" that chose to explode at that customer.

I noticed towards the end he said "sling him under a train"

That is simply sickening to wish death on any human being!

I noticed at the end of you video you stated that the woman laughed when you said to her that he'll lost his job.
She probably agreed with you, but didn't want to say anything because she didn't want any long term problems for her future on the railway. (I'm sure it doesn't take much work of one's imagination to realise what I'm saying here)


I have problems with a small number of rude revenue protection staff at my station that abuse their power, they can penalty fare a customer and not even clearly explain why. They have a right too know!
When a customer approaches me to complain, I am standing there thinking "I agree this man was ingnorant to you" but for the same reason as I mentioned earlier you feel awkward to voice your opinion.

My conclusion: Although the customer was wrong to a certain degree, with a byelaw breach.
Ian was the worst....he has a company to represent and therefore should behave like a representative.

I had 6 customers' support me yesterday after I had to deal with somebody, that refused to buy a ticket to Zone One because he could not afford it.
I said to him, Sir this is a revenue protection matter and you'll need to see them as I can only let you out with their permission"
(no aggression, no rudeness just one sentence that got straight to the point)
The man response was to spit at me and then headbutt me, with possible further attacks, until 6 customers interviened!
Had it not been for them, my injuries could have been much worse!

jon.doe@gmail.com · 2 months ago

Wow, you even refer them to your website in your formal complaint!

Hopefully a lot of people will see this, and you can be famous.

That's what you want, right?

jon.doe@gmail.com · 2 months ago

Wow, you even refer them to your website in your formal complaint!

Hopefully a lot of people will see this, and you can be famous.

That's what you want, right?

Ned · 2 months ago

Right. But he also dearly wants Ian to lose his job because he's an oik who dared to answer back to one of his betters, a man in a suit, a superior. Like our "hero".

Irish · 2 months ago

Well did he get fired or not ?

under every ponytail is a horse's arse

Jinky · 2 months ago

Lets put this in to a bit of perspective.

There are roughly six million counted journeys on a daily basis on London Underground. Mr MacDonald has had just over 700 replies to his hatchet job on "Ian".

I think those figures say far more than Mr MacDonalds own self importance does.

Yes "Ian" was wrong to react the way he did, but as I said earlier, we do not know the full story here, we only see a very small part of it.

And as for those of you who think you can do the work of an LUL employee, get off your lazy arses and apply. See how you would then enjoy getting up at three in the morning, or getting home from your late turn after three in the morning.

See how you would like getting dogs abuse for something that clearly isn't your fault, from suits who think "I pay your wages". Actually you don't. Every LUL employee also pays tax, N.I etc.

How would you like it if I came into your homes or workplace and started filming you??? I do believe there are laws against that sort of thing, but Mr MacDonald clearly doesn't abide by the laws of the land.

How would you like it if I came into your home or workplace and started shouting and swearing at you on a daily basis?? I'll bet you'd soon get the cops involved, so why do you expect an LUL employee to put up with it??

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

Well said!

Did you notice though how Mcdonald claimed he was "heading east" yet the trains were going to Ealing Broadway etc?
It raises suspicion in my mind as to how honest and accurate Mcdonald's story actually is!


I may be a Part Time student on the railway, but have learn't alot about public behaviour and will continue to do so over the next few years!

Guest · 1 month ago

learnt

Ned · 2 months ago

Today, shortly after 2.30pm, I saw a dog bark at a cat who was sitting on a wall.

Luckily, Cecil B de MacDonald wasn't there with his camera, so the dog does not have a lynch mob after him.

dave · 1 month ago

The most important thing demonstrated by this whole vitriolic debate is that everyone - especially public servants - can expect to be filmed at any time whatsoever, and later challenged for their behaviour. Ian will almost certainly get sacked, in disgrace, and possibly get himself a criminal record. It is that unavoidable fact, I guess, which is making his defenders on this site so angry - none of us have anywhere to hide.

Eric · 1 month ago

I and my wife are frequent visitors to London from Chesterfield and use most of London's transport services. After viewing the video and reading the Blog above by Mr MacDonald I have to say that I am not the least bit surprised that such an incident has taken place.

As in most other transport companies there are always "black sheep" employees: bad tempered, self important and too stressed out to work closely with the public in an effective and helpful manner. As a person who has never owned a car in my 65 years I have long experience as a public transport passenger and can testify that the helpful guy is always appreciated and the Grump is hated with a vengeance. Perhaps the two officials involver could do with some extra training in dealing with the PAYING PUBLIC. And now I'm told that my Oyster card payment is to rise again! Where will it all end?

tiofeo · 1 month ago

I don't understand...

1. ...why the door did not open automatically at once when it closed on the man's arm. A fault in the system? And it took thirty seconds to free the man? If so, that looks like a scandal in itself.

2. ...why London Underground, having just come near having a terrible mishap, fusses over a rule that is frequently broken. Why didn't the LU guard simply take the elderly man's arm and guide him gently but firmly back from the track, all the while smiling and uttering calming reassurances? When a train's safety features break down, extraordinary measures are called for. But no: just when things were utterly embarrassing for LU, the response was to scold and intimidate the passenger -- who must have been unnerved by the possibility of imminent traumatic amputation and/or a horrible death.

3. ...why anybody would waste time and hundreds of words trying to smear the weblogger as a fame-seeker and unfair reporter of events. Look: if you misbehave in public, you take your chances. The LU moron gambled and lost; end of report.

4. ...why it is not of concern to everyone that LU employees feel free to abuse the public. Note this revealing fact: the LU guard actually wanted to get the passenger upstairs and into the hands of the police. He did not fear for his job; he knew the elderly victim would not be believed, and would be scolded, humiliated and fined. He knew how the system works. Well, now LU employees also know they have to reckon with passengers who might give the world objective evidence (video with audio) of events. That's better, isn't it?

5. ...why the weblogger stopped recording when told to. My immediate thought is that LU wanted to hide the facts. LU regulations forbid videos of "anything that may negatively affect the interests of the site owner." I suspect that absurd prohibition would be ruled vague and unenforceable by a court. Some here say we should see the whole incident in order to be fair, but how could we ever do that if videos that may -- just may -- be unflattering are forbidden?

The system is rigged. Webloggers, including those who want to be famous, can and do perform valuable services to the public. They show us not just what happened, but how the system wants to deal with it.

Richard · 1 month ago

Jonathan,

You'll be pleased to know Ian Morbin has resigned; you must be very proud of yourself. Now get back out there with your mobile phone camera! Oh, and make sure you send everything to the press and publish it on here - we wouldn't want to give individuals and organisations the chance to speak for themselves and put their own processes in place, or let the public view things in context, things like that only get in the way of the lynch-mob, sorry, I mean justice!

Thinking about it, maybe you should follow Ian around, who knows what else he could be getting up too when you're not around to police him with your little camera!

Ned · 1 month ago

Richard

Please, don't put ideas into his head.

themanwithanarminadoor · 1 month ago

It's a conspiracy clearly lol

Jon · 1 month ago

According to the BBC - Ian has "resigned"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/83254...

Just as well really. If that isn't gross misconduct, then I don't know what is.

claire1984 · 1 month ago

Maybe he can now work with children or old people-his caring, kind, and patient attitude will really serve him well!!!

I think the LU did him a favour!! Resign, looks better on the CV!!!

dagenhammax · 1 month ago

Tifeo – to answer you questions.

1. Unlike doors on modern lifts there is no sensor that reopens the doors if they are obstructed, they have to be reopened by the Train Op on the front of the train and so it took a while to communicate the problem to him. This is by design, if the doors reopened every time someone obstructed them then the train would never leave the platform during the rush hour. We get 30 seconds “dwell time” to try to maintain a “train every 2 minutes” frequency and someone is always throwing an arm, leg, bag or umbrella in at the last moment.

2. The Customer Service Assistant (not guard, they used to monitor the doors from the back of the train, there are no guards on the Tube anymore) was doing his job in trying to get the service moving, first by “tipping out” the defective train so it could clear off and then monitoring what must have been an overcrowded platform. He let himself get angry with the situation which is certainly not what LUL wants but he’s only human, we all fuck up.

As for amputation or death, sorry it doesn’t work like that. There is a safety feature that stops the train moving if there is something caught in the doors, so when the little old man, who doesn’t actually look that old from the footage, got his arm caught getting off the defective train all he did was delay getting it on the move. Still the CSA has quit, probably had enough of dealing with the punters and I can’t say I blame him, had five years of that myself, almost went to work on the buses.

3. Misbehave in public! We misbehave in public we get filmed and told we are scum. Our wonderful travelling public piss and puke on the trains and platforms, pull the emergency handle for entertainment, forget personal items and cause security alerts, abuse, spit at and assault staff whenever they feel like it and think that they are justified because they pay for their Oyster. Come work on the Tube and see what it’s like, will give you a different view point.

4. As you can see Ian didn’t do anything of the sort, it was all bluster and bullshit. Once again, see 3 for my suggestion.

5. Why carry on recording. The train had gone with Little Old Man safely on board, what more was there to film. As for negative publicly remember that LUL allowed that load of tripe called “Three and Out” to be filmed on the Picc, pretty negative image as far as we were concerned. As long as it’s publicity the suits up at 55 Broadway will say yes to anything.

As for his objectivity, he filmed part of the incident, a snapshot, he didn’t show what happened before he started filming or what sort of day the CSA had endured up to that point in time. A little bit of footage is never the whole story.

Dagenham Max
Train Op, LUL

Charles · 1 month ago

Good job, Jonathan! Keep it up - there are too many wankers like this in jobs that they can't hack.

charlesfrith · 1 month ago

Well done for blogging this.

Sid · 1 month ago

It's slightly ironic that one of the biggest tossers in digital media is getting all this publicity from one of the biggest tossers on the London Underground.

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

10. TrainsNo person shall enter through any train door until any person leaving by that door has passed through.
No person shall be in or on any train except on the parts of it intended for the use of that person.
No person shall open a train door, or enter or leave any train, while it is in motion or between stations.
No person shall enter or leave a train except by proper use of a train door.
In the case of automatic closing train doors, no person shall enter or leave by the door when it is closing.

Source: Railway Byelaws www.tfl.gov.uk

WILL ALL PASSENGERS READ AND DIGEST THE ABOVE INFORMATION REGARDING THE CORRECT USE OF TRAIN DOORS.


Passengers' can be fined by the British Transport Police for breaching Byelaws.
Perhaps this is why Ian lost it with a customer that was seen arguing about a byelaw breach.

Whilst Ian should not of lost it, he had every right to take him up to the British Transport Police.

I note how Johnathan Mcdonald, has also decided to turn a blind eye to the Byelaws whilst gaining his short lived fame!
Rather convienient that isn't it Johnathan?
Was the term "Elderly Gentleman" an exaggeration?

What is all this nonsense about "passenger power" aswell?


You all have 3 key things.........

1/ London Travelwatch

2/ Passenger Focus

3/ TFL Complaint System (which is abused quite frequently over trivial matters)

I can't help but wonder how honest you are or whether you felt like gaining attention for yourself!




I not

aconcernedhuman · 1 month ago

Ians actions aren't excusable, neither is Mr. McDonalds...

Enjoy your moment in the spotlight Mr McDonald, Im sure you have never done something you regret?! If you haven't, lets hope there isn't someone waiting to capture it and destroy you with it when you inevitably do...

Well done again, you are a shining example of humanity...

cormacheron · 1 month ago

Ozzy Osbourne made a career out of ranting.

Shrimpy · 1 month ago

I see all the bleating here about what you did was wrong. Nothing could be further from the truth. Ian had plenty of options for dealing with this incident and retaining control. Unfortunately he lost control of himself and even more unfortunate for him he lost control in front of an audience. I was a copper for 30 years and I speak from experience when I say I know how awkward and annoying people can be when your trying to do your job. There is a very simple technique for how to react in this situation, just get calmer and calmer and exercise any real powers that you may choose to do so. Never threaten to do anything that you don't intend to carry out and make dam sure you act within your legal powers. If Ian had followed this route your film would never even have been recorded let alone published.

If I had been on that platform it would have been Ian's behaviour I addressed and not the little old man. To those quoting byelaws etc your missing the point. Ian's behaviour was the problem and he seems to have jumped rather than wait to be pushed.

In todays CCTV world where everyone has a video camera in their pocket and that material can be on Sky News within seconds, everyone needs to understand that bully boy tactics are very easy to expose.

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

Isn't a Police Officer supposed to be trained to understand a situation from start to end?
You're simply acting on Johnathan Mcdonald's video only!
Why not listen to the fact Ian said "It's hard enough to despatch a train as it is" featured in Mcdonald's video.
That might be an indication that Ian had up until that key moment when he called the passenger " A Jumped up little git" he was trying to resolve the situation correctly.

All that video shows to the average transport worker is......

Passenger ranting over a byelaw he has just broken to the female staff member.

(staff thinking why should we listen to this complaint, he hasn't got grounds for one)

Ian stating "It's hard enough to despatch a train as it is"

Passenger continues to rant

Ian gets annoyed and attempts to get the passenger to see the police regarding the broken byelaw

Ian loses his temper


That is the situation!


Yes, I can see Ian lost his temper, but Mcdonald's video showed no evidence of this until the passenger's dilberate ignorance, which possibly provoked that reaction from Ian.
Whilst it shouldn't of been said, it did get said!

Shrimpy, my personal opinion is British Transport Police don't really support transport staff in many situations anyway, and this is not in reference to this particular one.
They're another group that appear to NOT believe that there are actually TWO sides to EVERY story.
I am only a part time student working on the railway, and so too are a few others that work with me, and in that time I have been spat at, threatened, frequently abused and physically assaulted twice.

That's a great life for a transport employee that actually makes every effort to do his job the way it should be done!
It therefore begs the question, Is it any wonder some believe they have to fend for themselves and do react the way that Ian unfortunately has done?

Is it any wonder why we rely on the union as our primary option, where fewer numbers of us seek the advice of the police.

Police have the advantage of arresting individuals that get out of hand, that's why they remain calm, whilst we are trying to obey our nanny state!

We are NOT allowed:

To touch a passenger

Enforce the fare evasion policy the way it should be done.

Shrimpy · 1 month ago

I know some members of the public can be unbearable, true but you and I are public servants and have to act accordingly. I am not supporting the actions of the member of the public in this incident and I agree it always takes two to tango. The trouble is Ian lost control. The member of the public was saying very quietly 'do you have to swear', he was actually using the correct tactic. and poor old Ian took the bait.

I was not a British Transport officer and so to be honest I am not familiar with railway byelaws. I take it that LTU staff have no power of detention and therefore even if he wanted to do so Ian could not physically restrain the passenger. If that is the case why did he try to escalate the incident by telling the passenger he could not get on the train and that if he did so he would suspend the service? That was a case of threatening something that he was not prepared to deliver, police officers (me included) quickly learn that is a stupid route to take as when you don't follow through your entire credibility is destroyed.

An important part of policing is discretion. Police officers are empowered to use discretion as they see fit and have the option to ignore an incident right up to carrying out an arrest. Their actions must always be proportionate to the circumstances. LTU staff have the same discretion. Ok so the passenger was on the wrong side of a yellow line but is it therefore proportionate to berate him and say he should be thrown under a train. Its not mate.

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

Railway Byelaws cover 4 areas and each area has a wide variety of topics.

Area 1: Conduct and Behaviour

Area 2: Equipment and Safety

Area 3: Control of premises

Area 4: Travel and fares

Some of the topics in these areas are basic safety measures, that unfortunately the public choose to ignore these periodically.

For example: Somebody without a ticket should always be on the ticket office side/ticket hall (known as the unpaid side to railway staff) side of the barrier, and should not argue their right or cross the Gate -Line without a valid ticket, accept in cases that the passenger wishes to see the paying passenger (perhaps a friend) off.

Railway Byelaws such as those where passengers' jam train doors, are seen as more serious because these kind of actions cause damage to the train, causing it to develop a gradual fault, which can cause servere delays or even a partially suspended service, which is of course not popular with the travelling public.
I have been on a Piccadilly Line train most recently, which had to be taken out of service because a set of doors didn't close.

Transport employees are required to negotiate with the public over various issues, and as restraining individuals is not an option, some of us have little choice but to turn a blind eye, unless the police are within the immediate area.

Ian's saying that he should be thrown under a train was indeed uncalled for, however, one can only hope it was Ian's anger speaking.
I choose to work on facts when dealing with rude or ignorant passengers' i(in some cases ingore them) because if you play it strictly by the book, nobody can criticise.
Another method of mine, in instances where they appear to be "showering" abuse at you, I tell them to go and see someone else, with an adequate explanation as to why I do not wish to deal with them. (wish I am allowed to do if I feel threatened or intimidated)

Shrimpy · 1 month ago

Anyone here who works on the underground care to explain the following

1. what conflict management training you are given
2. Is it given before you start your first duties or after you have been working for a few weeks/months
3. Frequency of refresher training
4. Instruction in when to escalate and call the police
5. What your civil powers of arrest are

As a police officer I received a lot of training and refresher training. I also joined when it was a requirement to commit all police powers to memory enabling instant recall.

If I was running a team on the underground this is how I would brief at the start of the shift.

Try and help people today. Stay as positive as you can. Remember that no matter what people say to you out there only you can decide if you will let it hurt your feelings. If a passenger becomes abusive imagine an invisible shield surrounding you and their words just bouncing off. Never ever let them get you angry. If you see an offence take place, before you react assess the situation, ask yourself do I need to do anything here? remember your not a robot that has to respond to everything, you have discretion.

Ok so you decide you really do need to say something. Assess your safety. How is the individual likely to react. Are you outnumbered, do they have anything that could be used as a weapon. Is help at hand, is your radio working. How far are you prepared to take this, friendly advice, verbal warning, enforcement of byelaw, call the police, citizens arrest. LTU policy seems to be you cant touch people so whilst it does not cancel your citizens powers its probably best not to go there. (Having said that if you see a man strangling a woman and he wont let go then smacking him as hard as you can to stop him would certainly be reasonable force.) Standing back and arguing LTU say I can't touch him would be a poor defence in the court of public opinion.

Once you engage the passenger make sure you keep yourself safe. Stand at a safe distance, don't shout, swear, threaten or assault him. Deliver your advice or whatever and disengage. If he starts to escalate then take it to the level you decided before you initiated contact, once you reach that level walk away and leave or observe until he is gone. Whatever you do don't join in the escalation otherwise you copy poor old Ian.

I worked Gatwick Airport for a number of years and several of the main seaside towns in Sussex. I have a lot of experience dealing with irate passengers, drunks, druggies, robbers and scary psychopaths and lost kids. I would say it took me 2 years to develop my invisible shield and to perfect the technique. I have to say I enjoyed every minute of it. I had one big advantage though, I didnt need to call the police, I just needed to call the van to take them to the station.

Stay safe, stay off the CCTV, mobile phones and the evening news.

claire1984 · 1 month ago

How do you think members of the health care service feel, when you want to try and help people and all your getting is abuse?

Being hit, kicked, spat at, verbally abused, threatened etc...

You wonder why you do the job, but you have to look at the good people, there are far more good than bad!

It's hard but you have to bite your tongue, do your job and get on with it!

It is important to judge situations and understand how to deal with them to prevent them getting out of control!

Ian's actions would only make the situation worse! The other guy was ignorant but he wasn't abusive at all!

Training training training is what you guys need! You can only do your best! But Ian should have walked away when he felt his temper boiling!

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

claire1984, I am well aware that the public are just as bad to those that work at our Hospitals etc.

Having watched both of his interviews.....

On London Tonight: He appears to be a "genuinely concerned" passenger.

On BBC London News: He can't help but waffle on about passenger power.

Now considering a passenger has London Travelwatch, Passenger Focus and of course the complaint system, it makes me wonder if Mcdonald is one of these stereotypical passengers.


Mcdonald's story is also not entirely accurate.....his footage of the departure board proves this!

IvorB · 1 month ago

Pratt !!!

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

If you are going to abuse an individual IvorB, at least provide some reasonable grounds for doing so, otherwise you make yourself appear somewhat metally challenged

May I also add the term 'prat' is spelt with one T.

IvorB · 1 month ago

Quite correct - one T - u prat!!

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

You sound incredibly immature! I guess it proves my point about how people can't argue with facts.....the only other resort is abuse!
Oh, and please don't tell me your a city worker....I will laugh!

hte · 1 month ago

Having reviewed some of your previous posts hypocrisy immediately springs to mind. I suggest you lighten up and grow up. You are adding nothing constructive to this debate.

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

Really??? Hypocrisy!!!!

Believing 2 people are in the wrong is not hypocrisy!
Pointing out how stupid the passenger is for ranting about a byelaw he has just broken is funny.
Perhaps you disprove of the fact that I can actually see through the likes of Johnathan Mcdonald, trying to fully victimise Ian.
What is evident is Ian shouldn't of lost his temper, what isn't so evident is the fact they are both in the wrong.
Where is the hypocrisy????
I think you drew your very own conclusion there!
You want me to say "Oh that Ian Morbin, what an arse for abusing that elderly man that actually seems to walk just as well as you or me"
That would be deemed as constructive to you, but because it opposes your beliefs, that is of course "not constructive"

I have already done a step by step account of what I believe happened, you can't get more constructive then that!

IvorB · 1 month ago

I note from your other posts you are extremely abusive yourself.
I neither work nor live in London.
It is difficult to imagine you laughing - ever

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

I wasn't being abusive I was just highlighting the idiocy of Johnathan Macdonald's stunt.

1/ He believes he is going east, when the train departure board is showing Ealing Broadway etc as the destination.

2/ The alleged "Elderly Gentleman" is about as active as you or me, he could even be a senior City Banker!

3/ If a commuter is going to go out of his/her way to make a fool out of a member of staff, try not to include the fact the passenger broke a railway byelaw!

4/ Johnathan can't quite make up his mind as to whether his actions were a "good deed" or that of somebody that generally hates railway staff!


5/ It seems that some commuters' are under the misapprehension that railway staff are generally uneducated and have only picked those jobs' because their skills do not equate to that of an office worker or a banker for that matter.
Typically those kind of disparaging remarks come from those with overly inflated egos, because otherwise they would of known that some of those that work in customer service are either Part Time students (such as myself) whilst some employees might be in the job because they're in a field that they enjoy.

I intend to stay with the railway for the next 3 years at least until I graduate, it has taught me alot about public decency, or shall I say indecency.

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

Again, no anger intended there!
If you actually acknowledge what I'm getting at (particularly number 5) you will see why it annoys me.

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

If you are going to abuse an individual IvorB, at least provide some reasonable grounds for doing so, otherwise you make yourself appear somewhat metally challenged

May I also add the term 'prat' is spelt with one T.

IvorB · 1 month ago

I can however spell mentally - u prat

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

u???? What's that? Don't you mean 'You' ?
We don't live in a world which is dominated by 'chav' text speak you know. One would think that the average "city gent" would actually write like a city gent!

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

u???? What's that? Don't you mean 'You' ?
We don't live in a world which is dominated by 'chav' text speak you know. One would think that the average "city gent" would actually write like a city gent!

IvorB · 1 month ago

deliberate not dilberate. Macdonald not Mcdonald.

"Passenger continues to rant" I see no evidence of that.

Too much speculation of the events coupled with deliberate distortion of the facts to make your position credible.

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

Speculation of facts??

There are no concrete facts supplied by Macdonald, he has a story of what he "claimed" happened with a video to supplement it, which although shows Ian losing his temper, it doesn't suggest how things led to this!
What is evident, is this man broke a Railway Byelaw not to mention a basic safety precaution!

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

No, I call him Johnathan Mcdonald.
His name is actually spelt 'Jonathan Macdonald' (as shown on his website)
You failed to notice that didn't you?

IvorB · 1 month ago

Quite the contrary.

It is from the URL that I noticed you had incorrectly spelt his name. You seem to have an unfortunate capacity for miss-interpreting events.

IvorB · 1 month ago

Oops

Quite the contrary.

It is from the URL that I noticed you had incorrectly spelt his name. You seem to have an unfortunate capacity for misinterpreting events.

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

"No, I call him Johnathan Mcdonald.
His name is actually spelt 'Jonathan Macdonald' (as shown on his website)
You failed to notice that didn't you?"

As stated above, I seem to recall this and also made a point of saying I know how Ronald....I mean Jonathan Macdonald's name is spelt!

So tell me, when was the last time a Central Line train heading towards Ealing Broadway, went east??

Tell me, we does Jonathan say "for reasons we shall never know" when at the start of his essay of exaggerated nonsense, he appears to know why his train was delayed?

Call me pedantic if you wish, but suspicion does rise sky high when it appears that one is playing with the actual facts.

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

**why

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

"we all thought the train was heading further east"

haha, did you Jonathan? I hope not otherwise there would have been a collision!

"for reasons we shall never know, the train was terminating at Holborn and we were ushered out onto the platform by two (shouting) staff in Underground uniforms."

But Jonathan already appears to know why the train was terminated....it was FAULTY!

Staff are encouraged to raise their voices, so they can be heard clearly in situations such as that!

I could go on pulling his exaggerated story apart, it is quite simply laughable!

tiofeo · 1 month ago

Thanks to Dagenhammax for explaining the way the doors work on LUL trains. I confess surprise. Where I live, we have an "elevated" and an "underground" that remind me of London's LUL, more or less -- here, the doors can't catch an arm or a bag, for they open fully or stop partially open when they can't close. It works without incident in this city, and I suspect cultural differences account for that. I find that sad. Many commenters here describe a level of tension and hostility in the LUL network that seems to me shockingly uncivilized. Given that environment, I can't see a remedy for the problem.

Many years ago, I read that those in the USA and those in the UK see queues very differently: to a Yank, a "line" of people waiting means there is something wrong, while a Briton sees the queue as a good thing, because it means everyone will get his turn. Evidently that's a little bit of folk wisdom I can now forget.

IvorB · 1 month ago

The reason is that a substantial minority of Londoners are not Britons - regrettably.

wmmvrrvrrmm · 1 month ago

I thank Jon MacDonald for filming the scene

Well, I found the rantings of the staff member with the pony tail to be very entertaining with a fine verbal performance, much better than the usual sort of thing we have as British Cinema. He's probably venting the suppressed feelings of the whole of London in the face of political correctdom. They ought to make a movie about him, perhaps a British version of Pasolini's Accattone. He ought to be made a modern British folk hero.

I'm sure that there must have been some reason to yell his head off at the certain member of the public, maybe I would have found a reason too given a long enough amount of time, perhaps because of the size of his ears of the length of his nose or even fingers. I'm not supposed to care if he seemed like the nicest person in the world on the surface.I don't quite know what the elderly man personally said to the staff member. If I am supposed to care about the man yelled at, well I will have to wait for that to happen.

Karwa · 1 month ago

It seems as though Mr. MacDonald has lost his sense of direction. As the destination board is showing West Ruislip & Ealing Broadway the train would have been travelling further west not east.

The Broken Byelaw · 1 month ago

I am sure whilst Johnathan was constructing his exaggerative essay, he forgot to take note of that.
It is worth remembering though, it is always the the staff that are 100% in the wrong and never the passenger.
I agree with RailwayEmployee, they are both mutually in the wrong.
Only somebody that works on the railway, appears to have the ability to understand that!

IvorB · 1 month ago

Does it really in matter which direction the train was travelling?. I guess Mr MacDonald is not the only one who has lost his sense of direction

tiofeo · 1 month ago

To return to my question regarding the safety feature on the doors: Dagenhammax informs us that "if the doors reopened every time someone obstructed them then the train would never leave the platform during the rush hour." He also says, "if they are obstructed, they have to be reopened by the Train Op on the front of the train" which takes some time. Then: "someone is always throwing an arm, leg, bag or umbrella in at the last moment." I assume all of these statements are true.

This looks to me like the perfect muddle: a confluence of bad design (the safety system) and misbehavior (from the minority of passengers who are such boors). I wonder, then, how trains run at all during rush hour....

Maintaining the schedule seems to this amazed observer to be more a matter of good luck than anything else. No wonder tempers are short.

Perhaps it's time for some genuinely imaginative thinking. All the rules and procedures and guidelines and training and effort seem to have resulted in...a bad situation that just goes up in cost and down in quality of service. Pity.

Note, please, that this maladaptive situation would never have been brought to light had not a weblogger recorded a dispute and made it available to the public. Disputes of this sort, if handled according to the prescribed guidelines and rules and standard procedures, disappear into the maw of the system.

That automatically preserves the current state of the system, which satisfies the prime objective of any bureaucracy: that it survive and grow while undergoing as little change as possible. Is that what Londoners want from LUL?

Ned · 1 month ago

Well, it's all gone quiet on the western front now (or should that be eastern), Ian Morbin's lost his job and the lynch mob has dispersed, sated, so what's next Mr Tarantini, sorry, MacDonald? A victory parade perhaps? You haven't been seen on tv for a while now - Whitehall will be free of traffic on Sunday how about taking your place in the march past, you've done your bit: "They also serve who only stand and watch" or something like that.

"I will not cease from menial strife
Nor shall my camera sleep in my hand
Till I have built.."

Well, you know the rest.

aa · 1 month ago

Thanks for posting this and filing the complaint. It's because of people like you that make our community better.

BusyBody · 3 weeks ago

I thought it was illegal to film in the underground.

Charles Bingley · 2 weeks ago

If I did what Ian did in my normal everyday job, I'd expect to be disciplined or even sacked. What Ian did was utterly unprofessional regardless of the circumstances especially his parting shot of 'sling him under the train'.

And I don't know why people are defending him. Are you saying that that was acceptable behaviour?! Are you willing to subject yourself to such a scenario where you are at the receiving end of such abuse?

Ned · 1 week ago

You are missing the point. This was a trivial altercation between two people, nothing to do with a self-important interfering busybody, which was over and done with until the busybody, who has a long standing grudge against public transport and its employees (check it out) chose to go out of his way to get the tube worker sacked.

People are not defending what Ian said, people are saying there are two sides to the story. He was dealing with someone who had tried to stop the doors closing and board a train that was being taken out of service and he may have been, probably was, severely provoked - you don't know, I don't know, because only the end of the altercation was shown; maybe even MacDonald doesn't know but it gave him the chance to punish public transport worker and at the same time get some free publicity.

You say you'd expect to be sacked if it were you but be honest with yourself - would you also expect to be subjected to the vilification that Ian received with your name and other details put up on Youtube? I doubt it. You would surely expect to be given the chance to put your side of it through the proper channels, not be subjected to the sort of media pressure Ian got, soundbites from the head of tfl and the Mayor himself on tv before you'd had your say. Did you see MacDonald gloating on the news at the time? It was truly nauseating.

In the absence of any knowledge to the contrary I would assume that Ian Morbin was hard working and honest and he's lost his job just to satisfy an abominable and vengeful interloper. MacDonald should be thoroughly ashamed of himself.